Court: California gay marriage ban is unconstitutional

[Jazz Spazz]

Face it guys, all gays are miserable, unlike the rest of us...

I don't know how true that is, but some doctors think there is a link or tie.

https://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html

I'm too lazy to look more up, just as you are too lazy to research it.
We have no way to know, but I doubt all homosexual people are miserable, it is possible there a greater percentage than heterosexuals that are unhappy or depressed or whatever.

 

[kwb]

It's a Mormon world and were all just guests right Craig?

 

[Gameface]

I don't know how true that is, but some doctors think there is a link or tie.

https://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html

I'm too lazy to look more up, just as you are too lazy to research it.
We have no way to know, but I doubt all homosexual people are miserable, it is possible there a greater percentage than heterosexuals that are unhappy or depressed or whatever.

Yeah, I'm mostly just being snide.

The causes of homosexuality don't concern me, nor the advantages or disadvantages of being homosexual. To me that doesn't affect my view at all. I start from the idea that all people are free and own their own existence. They don't owe their existence to society. No one is required to provide a net positive benefit to the world. If one chooses (or is naturally preinclined) to be homosexual it doesn't matter to me one bit if acceptance of them will lead to the downfall of America. The American people are free to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation. There should be no force or obligation placed on any individual to make America great and prosperous.

That's my take anyway. I apply that thinking to my views on tax policy as well as social policy. I'm not an "ends justify the means" type of guy.

 

[Stoked]

It's a Mormon world and were all just guests right Craig?

I am reading a level of anti-mormon sentiment in your posts. Is this correct or am I just seeing something that is not there?

 

[kwb]

I am reading a level of anti-mormon sentiment in your posts. Is this correct or am I just seeing something that is not there?

I am actually Mormon. Went on a mission. So you're just reading something that is not there.

 

[Stoked]

I am actually Mormon. Went on a mission. So you're just reading something that is not there.

Which is why I asked. I was not sure.

 

[kwb]

My personal opinion is there are plenty of other things to worry about in life than what others are doing. I don't allow the actions of others to effect my life. If some one wants to be gay, who am I to say, "That's wrong" just because I go to church? I'll leave those decisions up to God. It's his business and not mine. Once again, a gay person will not effect how I live my life. I will continue to live my life the way I want to. If I saw a person on the street needing help say with a broken down car, I would help. If that person were gay and I knew that, my actions would be the same. What I learned from the church was to love everyone no matter what their choices in life are. But then again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just don't like when they force their opinions on to others.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Yeah, I'm mostly just being snide.

The causes of homosexuality don't concern me, nor the advantages or disadvantages of being homosexual. To me that doesn't affect my view at all. I start from the idea that all people are free and own their own existence. They don't owe their existence to society. No one is required to provide a net positive benefit to the world. If one chooses (or is naturally preinclined) to be homosexual it doesn't matter to me one bit if acceptance of them will lead to the downfall of America. The American people are free to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation. There should be no force or obligation placed on any individual to make America great and prosperous.

That's my take anyway. I apply that thinking to my views on tax policy as well as social policy. I'm not an "ends justify the means" type of guy.

I can understand that.

My point is that we all affect each other. Who I am, and what I do even in the privacy of my own home will affect other people. As a citizen of the United States and as a part of the world as a whole I can have an opinion as to what is best for me, my family, my state, my country, and the world. It may be one opinion but it's my obligation to state my mind and attempt to make all of those better the way I see fit. Of course my opinion will differ from that of others, and that's fine, but I will stand up for what I think is right especially when I see things happening that I feel will hurt one or all of those. Yes people have choices and are not obligated to make a choice that will make me happy. It is also my freedom to call someone out that "chooses to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation" because I want and expect something better of and from this nation. I will do whatever I can as one person to stand up for what I think is right and good, and to encourage or help others to rid themselves of any apathy or selfishness to do more, be better and help make America "great and prosperous" again. I can't force someone, but just as I can help dress my kids or help an old lady across the street, or give advice to a teenager that is going through a rough time, or give someone a ride somewhere, or give someone some food who is going through a tough time, or teach and encourage people around me good things I've learned... I can help some individuals around me and encourage them to be and do better. Sometimes I lock a drawer with tools or door so my kids don't get into it and do something dangerous. There are times that we need to lock a drawer or door to ensure safety. Does that always work? No. If a kid is determined to get into the locked drawer or door they will often find a way in. Sometimes locking the door encourages them to find out what is on the other side, so we have to determine if it's really the best thing to keep it unlocked so they don't really care or if we should lock it and by doing so pique their interest. Whatever, I am rambling now.

/ramble

 

[Stoked]

As long as someone is not hurting anyone else, breaking the law or destroying themselves I do not see the problem. If two gay men want to marry that has no negative affect on me or society.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

As long as someone is not hurting anyone else, breaking the law or destroying themselves I do not see the problem. If two gay men want to marry that has no negative affect on me or society.

I respectfully disagree. I will say there are plenty of worse things out there, but there is definitely an affect on you and society.
Each person is a part of society, each person affects society.

 

[kwb]

I respectfully disagree. I will say there are plenty of worse things out there, but there is definitely an affect on you and society.
Each person is a part of society, each person affects society.

There are already plenty of gay people out there. How has society changed because of it? People being gay has had no affect on me whatsoever. I can respect your opinion but for you to say that it's having an affect on some one you don't know is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Gameface]

I can understand that.

My point is that we all affect each other. Who I am, and what I do even in the privacy of my own home will affect other people. As a citizen of the United States and as a part of the world as a whole I can have an opinion as to what is best for me, my family, my state, my country, and the world. It may be one opinion but it's my obligation to state my mind and attempt to make all of those better the way I see fit. Of course my opinion will differ from that of others, and that's fine, but I will stand up for what I think is right especially when I see things happening that I feel will hurt one or all of those. Yes people have choices and are not obligated to make a choice that will make me happy. It is also my freedom to call someone out that "chooses to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation" because I want and expect something better of and from this nation. I will do whatever I can as one person to stand up for what I think is right and good, and to encourage or help others to rid themselves of any apathy or selfishness to do more, be better and help make America "great and prosperous" again. I can't force someone, but just as I can help dress my kids or help an old lady across the street, or give advice to a teenager that is going through a rough time, or give someone a ride somewhere, or give someone some food who is going through a tough time, or teach and encourage people around me good things I've learned... I can help some individuals around me and encourage them to be and do better. Sometimes I lock a drawer with tools or door so my kids don't get into it and do something dangerous. There are times that we need to lock a drawer or door to ensure safety. Does that always work? No. If a kid is determined to get into the locked drawer or door they will often find a way in. Sometimes locking the door encourages them to find out what is on the other side, so we have to determine if it's really the best thing to keep it unlocked so they don't really care or if we should lock it and by doing so pique their interest. Whatever, I am rambling now.

/ramble

There's a big difference between holding an opinion and advocating that point of view and using the force of law to deny people the ability to exercise their own free will.

I'm sure you see pitfalls in the use and abuse of alcohol. Yet it is legal. The experiment in prohibition was a disaster. Letting people do as they please, even though it is bad for the rest of us, actually has better results than trying to force everyone to "live right."

 

[kwb]

I can understand that.

My point is that we all affect each other. Who I am, and what I do even in the privacy of my own home will affect other people. As a citizen of the United States and as a part of the world as a whole I can have an opinion as to what is best for me, my family, my state, my country, and the world. It may be one opinion but it's my obligation to state my mind and attempt to make all of those better the way I see fit. Of course my opinion will differ from that of others, and that's fine, but I will stand up for what I think is right especially when I see things happening that I feel will hurt one or all of those. Yes people have choices and are not obligated to make a choice that will make me happy. It is also my freedom to call someone out that "chooses to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation" because I want and expect something better of and from this nation. I will do whatever I can as one person to stand up for what I think is right and good, and to encourage or help others to rid themselves of any apathy or selfishness to do more, be better and help make America "great and prosperous" again. I can't force someone, but just as I can help dress my kids or help an old lady across the street, or give advice to a teenager that is going through a rough time, or give someone a ride somewhere, or give someone some food who is going through a tough time, or teach and encourage people around me good things I've learned... I can help some individuals around me and encourage them to be and do better. Sometimes I lock a drawer with tools or door so my kids don't get into it and do something dangerous. There are times that we need to lock a drawer or door to ensure safety. Does that always work? No. If a kid is determined to get into the locked drawer or door they will often find a way in. Sometimes locking the door encourages them to find out what is on the other side, so we have to determine if it's really the best thing to keep it unlocked so they don't really care or if we should lock it and by doing so pique their interest. Whatever, I am rambling now.

/ramble

In this example, you're talking about your children. You know what's best for them as a father and that's why you are locking the drawer. You raised them. Plus they are kids and don't know better. That's fine. But for you to use this example and "locking" things for others because you see fit when you don't know them is just odd to me. I see where you are coming from but I just don't agree. I put a child safety lock on my back door so my kid can't get out because I don't want him running off. I know it would be bad. Would I do that if a friend of mine came over because I'm afraid of him running off? No, he's a grown *** man and can choose for himself what he wants whether I think it's harmful or not. Once again, him doing that will not affect me.

 

[kwb]

I can understand that.

My point is that we all affect each other. Who I am, and what I do even in the privacy of my own home will affect other people. As a citizen of the United States and as a part of the world as a whole I can have an opinion as to what is best for me, my family, my state, my country, and the world. It may be one opinion but it's my obligation to state my mind and attempt to make all of those better the way I see fit. Of course my opinion will differ from that of others, and that's fine, but I will stand up for what I think is right especially when I see things happening that I feel will hurt one or all of those. Yes people have choices and are not obligated to make a choice that will make me happy. It is also my freedom to call someone out that "chooses to be useless to the continuing existence of this nation" because I want and expect something better of and from this nation. I will do whatever I can as one person to stand up for what I think is right and good, and to encourage or help others to rid themselves of any apathy or selfishness to do more, be better and help make America "great and prosperous" again. I can't force someone, but just as I can help dress my kids or help an old lady across the street, or give advice to a teenager that is going through a rough time, or give someone a ride somewhere, or give someone some food who is going through a tough time, or teach and encourage people around me good things I've learned... I can help some individuals around me and encourage them to be and do better. Sometimes I lock a drawer with tools or door so my kids don't get into it and do something dangerous. There are times that we need to lock a drawer or door to ensure safety. Does that always work? No. If a kid is determined to get into the locked drawer or door they will often find a way in. Sometimes locking the door encourages them to find out what is on the other side, so we have to determine if it's really the best thing to keep it unlocked so they don't really care or if we should lock it and by doing so pique their interest. Whatever, I am rambling now.

/ramble

In this example, you're talking about your children. You know what's best for them as a father and that's why you are locking the drawer. You raised them. Plus they are kids and don't know better. That's fine. But for you to use this example and "locking" things for others because you see fit when you don't know them is just odd to me. I see where you are coming from but I just don't agree. I put a child safety lock on my back door so my kid can't get out because I don't want him running off. I know it would be bad. Would I do that if a friend of mine came over because I'm afraid of him running off? No, he's a grown *** man and can choose for himself what he wants whether I think it's harmful or not. Once again, him doing that will not affect me.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

There are already plenty of gay people out there. How has society changed because of it? People being gay has had no affect on me whatsoever. I can respect your opinion but for you to say that it's having an affect on some one you don't know is kind of ridiculous.

Every member of society has an affect on that society as a whole, and therefore upon the other members of that society.
It's not ridiculous, your claim that other members of society have no affect on you is ridiculous.
I'm not mad about it, and I don't hate anyone that is homosexual or all of them as a whole at all.
I'm just stating what is the reality of things.

 

[kwb]

Every member of society has an affect on that society as a whole, and therefore upon the other members of that society.
It's not ridiculous, your claim that other members of society have no affect on you is ridiculous.
I'm not mad about it, and I don't hate anyone that is homosexual or all of them as a whole at all.
I'm just stating what is the reality of things.

Once again, how is some one being gay having an affect on me? I haven't seen it yet. Gay people have been around before I was born. I'm sure racists back in the 60's had the same argument that blacks were some how affecting society.

 

[Stoked]

I respectfully disagree. I will say there are plenty of worse things out there, but there is definitely an affect on you and society.
Each person is a part of society, each person affects society.

There is an effect. I just do not see a negative affect. Let us say two gay men/women get married. Are they not making a family and contributing to society? If so how is that negative?

 

[PearlWatson]

There's a big difference between holding an opinion and advocating that point of view and using the force of law to deny people the ability to exercise their own free will.

...to force governments to recognize their relationship as a marriage.

You want government out of the drug busting business and government involved in the homosexual relationship business. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

There is an effect. I just do not see a negative affect. Let us say two gay men/women get married. Are they not making a family and contributing to society? If so how is that negative?

There is an effect. The negative depends on your perspective and opinion. I have my reasons for why I see it the way I do. You have your reasons for seeing things the way you do... but it seems at least we can both agree there is an effect.

 

[Stoked]

There is an effect. The negative depends on your perspective and opinion. I have my reasons for why I see it the way I do. You have your reasons for seeing things the way you do... but it seems at least we can both agree there is an effect.

Yes we both agree that there is an effect. KWB is arguing no effect. I am saying no negative effect. I do not see gay marriage as negative. I see individual marriages as good or bad depending on the peoples personalities that are in them. There will be positive and negative effecting marriages amoung straights and gays. Gay marriage itself is no more negative or positive then marriage as it stands now.