The USA is a police state

[Stoked]

Homeland Security and drones are nothing compared to Home Teachers and Relief Society.

Haha, that made me laugh. I do not get involved with church callings.

 

[Bronco70]

It's better to have a few explosions and more freedoms.

I'm having a difficult time getting a read on this post. Are you being sarcastic, Brow? Because this is in direct opposition to your position on guns, where it's better to have fewer guns than more freedom.

Just curious.

 

[One Brow]

I'm having a difficult time getting a read on this post. Are you being sarcastic, Brow? Because this is in direct opposition to your position on guns, where it's better to have fewer guns than more freedom.

Just curious.

No, I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely think that the long-term interest of our society is better served by people with greater expectations of privacy, more secure access to habeus corpus, and fewer guns. I see the benefits of free speech and free association as much more significant than the benefits of armed civilians, and the downsides fo the former to be much less onerous.

 

[Stoked]

No, I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely think that the long-term interest of our society is better served by people with greater expectations of privacy, more secure access to habeus corpus, and fewer guns. I see the benefits of free speech and free association as much more significant than the benefits of armed civilians, and the downsides fo the former to be much less onerous.

Greater privacy? Yes
Habeus corpus? Yes
Less Guns? As long as the uninfringed right is there to have them they can have them or not due to their personal discretion.

 

[moevillini]

it all boils down to who has the most smart phones

 

[fishonjazz]

Greater privacy? Yes
Habeus corpus? Yes
Less Guns? As long as the uninfringed right is there to have them they can have them or not due to their personal discretion.

Ya hopefully people will eventually just not feel a need to have guns and choose to not have them on thier own

 

[Bronco70]

Ya hopefully people will eventually just not feel a need to have guns and choose to not have them on thier own

Even if I felt that guns were unnecessary for personal protection, there are numerous other reasons to have them. It would be nice if nobody used them for nefarious purposes, though.

 

[fishonjazz]

Even if I felt that guns were unnecessary for personal protection, there are numerous other reasons to have them. It would be nice if nobody used them for nefarious purposes, though.

This is true but the problem is that they are so deadly that accidents happen alot so if there was never a need for a gun for protection (in a hypothetical perfect world) then i think it would be better if nobody owned one.
I read an article in maxim about a guy who was duck hunting with his dog and he laid the gun down in the boat and then the dog stepped on the trigger and the man got shot.

People are shot by guns accidentally all the time..... i was even hunting ducks with my dad and one of my brothers once and my brother was out on an island and couldn't see my and my dad cause we were in thick reeds and camo, and a duck landed on the water between where i was and where my bro was and he shot it and some of the bb's from his shotgun shell skipped off the water and hit me and my dad (and our cooler). No serious injuries since it was just a ricochet but like i said..... guns are so lethal that even if no one ever used a gun in a "nefarious" way, there would still be very sad and unfortunate deaths from them

 

[Bronco70]

If guns were the only thing that contributed to accidental deaths, you'd have a point. But the fact is, accidental deaths happen for a variety of reasons, and most of the time, guns aren't involved. We'd be safer if people would act responsibly.

 

[fishonjazz]

If guns were the only thing that contributed to accidental deaths, you'd have a point. But the fact is, accidental deaths happen for a variety of reasons, and most of the time, guns aren't involved. We'd be safer if people would act responsibly.

Yes but accidental deaths by things like falling off of ladders, or slipping in the bathtub, or car accidents etc etc are all things that are kind of a neccessary part of life.... Guns only essential purpose is for killing. If guns did not exist and people were all kind to one another (granted a completely retarded hypothetical) then everyone would be just fine without them existing and we wouldn't really miss them much.
Maybe you know of something else that causes accidental deaths that are not neccessary parts of life and if you can think of any then i would like it if they were all gone as well.... i cant think of anything that accidentally kills people often that is not a neccessary part of life besides guns though.

 

[Stoked]

Ya hopefully people will eventually just not feel a need to have guns and choose to not have them on thier own

Some will but there will always be guns.

 

[Stoked]

This is true but the problem is that they are so deadly that accidents happen alot so if there was never a need for a car for transportation (in a hypothetical perfect world) then i think it would be better if nobody owned one.

fixed

 

[SaltyDawg]

Yes but accidental deaths by things like falling off of ladders, or slipping in the bathtub, or car accidents etc etc are all things that are kind of a neccessary part of life.... Guns only essential purpose is for killing. If guns did not exist and people were all kind to one another (granted a completely retarded hypothetical) then everyone would be just fine without them existing and we wouldn't really miss them much.
Maybe you know of something else that causes accidental deaths that are not neccessary parts of life and if you can think of any then i would like it if they were all gone as well.... i cant think of anything that accidentally kills people often that is not a neccessary part of life besides guns though.

Per this link:
https://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/top-5-causes-of-accidental-death-in-the-united-states.html

The top 5 causes of accidental deaths for people between the ages of 1 and 42 in the United States are:

5: Choking (Approximately 2,500 deaths per year)

4: Fires (2,700 annual deaths)

3: Falls (25,000 annual deaths)

2: Poisoning (39,000 annual deaths)

1: Motor Vehicle Incidents (42,000 annual deaths)

Just missing the cut was Drowning (2,000 annual deaths).

Way down the list, Accidental Shootings (600 annual deaths).

Obviously, we should ban cars and make everyone use public transportation. And swimming pools should be banned as well.

 

[fishonjazz]

Per this link:
https://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/top-5-causes-of-accidental-death-in-the-united-states.html

The top 5 causes of accidental deaths for people between the ages of 1 and 42 in the United States are:

5: Choking (Approximately 2,500 deaths per year)

4: Fires (2,700 annual deaths)

3: Falls (25,000 annual deaths)

2: Poisoning (39,000 annual deaths)

1: Motor Vehicle Incidents (42,000 annual deaths)

Just missing the cut was Drowning (2,000 annual deaths).

Way down the list, Accidental Shootings (600 annual deaths).

Obviously, we should ban cars and make everyone use public transportation. And swimming pools should be banned as well.

If we could ban cars and public transportation went everyones house and also public transportation took us wherever we want then that would be great!... but unfortunately cars are neccessary for day to day life (unlike guns).
I guess we could ban water, but then of course water is kind of neccessary for living (unlike guns)
We could ban fire, except fire is used for many many things that are neccessary, like keeping my house heated.
Falls.... impossible to ban that one.
choking... food is pretty neccessary for life.
Again, my point is that all those things listed have a primary use (fire for warmth or cooking ect., water for drinking, cars for getting from place to place, food is for eating, poison could be for cleaning or killing bugs or something depending on the poison) that is not killing stuff.
A gun was made for killing, that is the main purpose or primary use for a gun.

 

[Stoked]

If we could ban cars and public transportation went everyones house and also public transportation took us wherever we want then that would be great!... but unfortunately cars are neccessary for day to day life (unlike guns).
I guess we could ban water, but then of course water is kind of neccessary for living (unlike guns)
We could ban fire, except fire is used for many many things that are neccessary, like keeping my house heated.
Falls.... impossible to ban that one.
choking... food is pretty neccessary for life.
Again, my point is that all those things listed have a primary use (fire for warmth or cooking ect., water for drinking, cars for getting from place to place, food is for eating, poison could be for cleaning or killing bugs or something depending on the poison) that is not killing stuff.
A gun was made for killing, that is the main purpose or primary use for a gun.

So was poisoning people but that still seems to be possible...

Simple fact is that owning a gun is my right wether you like it or not.

 

[fishonjazz]

fixed

I agree stoked, it would be awesome if there was never a need for cars so that no one died from car wrecks... hopefully one day that is the case.

Maybe we will be able to teleport some day and then there will be no deaths from automobiles.... of course the bad side of that would be that supporters of guns would not be able to say "cars kill more people than guns, so lets ban cars" anymore. Still i think it would be cool if one day no one had to own a car
Not only would there be no more car related deaths but i would save alot of money on car payments and insurance and gas too.

It would be cool of some "weapon" could be invented that was just as effective as a gun for protection yourself, but not so deadly so that there would not be any accidental deaths. (like maybe some kind of super effective long range futuristic stun gun)
Would you be supportive of something like that?... or do you gun supporters just love guns because of the fact that they are great at killing?

 

[fishonjazz]

So was poisoning people but that still seems to be possible...

Poison is not made for killing silly.

Bleach is for cleaning (for example)
I think that most all poisons that exist have a different primary function other than killing and if they dont, then i say hell ya ban them if we dont need them!

 

[SaltyDawg]

If we could ban cars and public transportation went everyones house and also public transportation took us wherever we want then that would be great!... but unfortunately cars are neccessary for day to day life (unlike guns).
I guess we could ban water, but then of course water is kind of neccessary for living (unlike guns)
We could ban fire, except fire is used for many many things that are neccessary, like keeping my house heated.
Falls.... impossible to ban that one.
choking... food is pretty neccessary for life.
Again, my point is that all those things listed have a primary use (fire for warmth or cooking ect., water for drinking, cars for getting from place to place, food is for eating, poison could be for cleaning or killing bugs or something depending on the poison) that is not killing stuff.
A gun was made for killing, that is the main purpose or primary use for a gun.

Guns are necessary to hunt food. Sure, you can get food other ways in this day and age. And you can get from point a to point b without a car in this day and age too. And you certainly don't "need" a swimming pool.

 

[Stoked]

Poison is not made for killing silly.

Bleach is for cleaning (for example)
I think that most all poisons that exist have a different primary function other than killing and if they dont, then i say hell ya ban them if we dont need them!

But poisoning people is still outlawed but still seems to happen.

 

[fishonjazz]

But poisoning people is still outlawed but still seems to happen.

You never answered my question

If (hypothecally of course) something was invented that could protect you just as effectively as a gun, but was non lethal (like a long range futuristic type of stun gun) and could do everything a gun could do (hunting and stuff) but didn't kill, would you support getting rid of guns in favor of the "stun gun" type weapon?
Or is the killing the most important/fascinating/desirable thing about guns?