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Reality Check!

Do the core 4 have the talent to win a championship.

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 43.9%

  • No

    Votes: 23 56.1%
  • Total voters
    41
silesian said:
Only one team with an effective age under 25 has ever won a championship (1977 Blazers)

35 wins will be a major accomplishment for Jazz. Playoffs would be a miracle.

Wait are 3-4 years to make judgment on this Jazz team, hopefully with player development and adding pieces (draft?) along the way. A winning record or playoffs is not a criteria for success for this team. Anyone hoping for this will likely be (unnecessarily) disappointed.
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This is exactly how a rebuild should be IMO. The Jazz have good, young players who need experience more than success. The years of barely making the playoffs, only to get swept are hopefully over. The Jazz need to see exactly what their core group of players are capable of right now. That way, they can figure out how to compliment them when they do try to build a championship roster through future draft picks and free agent pickups.

As I see it, they have two quality defensive bigs (Favors and Gobert), one offensive big who could potentially be the best player on the team if he lives up to his ability (Kanter), one wing player who will become an All-Star player and key offensive guy (Hayward), one wing player who will start this year but will likely end up as the 6th man and an offensive spark off the bench (Burks), and two young point guards (Burke and Neto) to develop in completly different ways with the expectation that one of them grows into the floor general they need to lead the group. Plus, they are "going lean" in an attempt to land a top two pick (which means either Wiggins or Parker at the 3 and Hayward moving to the 2.)

The Core4 (or IMO Core6 now) may not be championship level at this point, but they have some pieces in place to start building a championship team. Lindsey will do things like the Spurs have. . . get a great coach, draft well and make key moves when the opportunies present themselves. I think the key to the whole thing will be the coach. I like Ty Corbin as a person, but he's out of his depth as a head coach. There's talent on this team and assets and cap space to add more. The evaluation period could be brutal, but they've set themselves up beautifully to build a winning team down the road.
 
I don't think they can win a title..... I mean with only 4 guys its hard to beat the opponent going 4 against 5 all the time with no one even on the bench to sub in when they get tired

Seriously though, I believe they still need an alpha dog wing scorer (unless burks can become that) added to the core..... Which is why the tank is so crucial.

We can either draft that player (wiggins) or if we draft Harrison or randle we can then go after the player we need in free agency (unlikely for a star to choose Utah, but possible) or trade some of our core + picks or whatever to get our star.

No matter how I look at it, we should be getting our alpha dog star player next year whether through draft, free agency, or trade.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't think they can win a title..... I mean with only 4 guys its hard to beat the opponent going 4 against 5 all the time with no one even on the bench to sub in when they get tired

Seriously though, I believe they still need an alpha dog wing scorer (unless burks can become that) added to the core..... Which is why the tank is so crucial.

We can either draft that player (wiggins) or if we draft Harrison or randle we can then go after the player we need in free agency (unlikely for a star to choose Utah, but possible) or trade some of our core + picks or whatever to get our star.

No matter how I look at it, we should be getting our alpha dog star player next year whether through draft, free agency, or trade.
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So glad some understand this...
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't think they can win a title..... I mean with only 4 guys its hard to beat the opponent going 4 against 5 all the time with no one even on the bench to sub in when they get tired

Seriously though, I believe they still need an alpha dog wing scorer (unless burks can become that) added to the core..... Which is why the tank is so crucial.

We can either draft that player (wiggins) or if we draft Harrison or randle we can then go after the player we need in free agency (unlikely for a star to choose Utah, but possible) or trade some of our core + picks or whatever to get our star.

No matter how I look at it, we should be getting our alpha dog star player next year whether through draft, free agency, or trade.
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I need to rep you more often.
 
Gameface said:
I guess I should have said we start to figure it out this year.
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This.

We'll get an idea of what these players ceilings maybe. The year the Jazz took the Lakers to 7 we knew
Karl and John had the potential to be elite, and compete for a title.

This year we'll learn a lot about our guys now that they are "the man". I think Burks may surprise some people.
Probably one out of Kanter, Favors, and Hayward will disappoint with the added pressure.
 
The Jazz will never tank. It's not in their DNA. Anyone wonder why Biendrins fell apart? I would bet that when the Warriors went on the tank he lost his drive, and if the Jazz do the same thing, Who's to say that Hayward/Favors/Enes/Burks/Burke don't do the same? All indications are that this team will work their tails off to offset their inexperience, and guess what? That's what builds Hall of Fame players in this system.

Karl Malone? Drafted 13. John Stockton? Drafted 16. Mid first round picks are some of the worst picks in the draft because so many teams draft on potential rather than ready made talent. That's the Jazz moniker. Notice, we drafted Deron, a proven talent and he leaves for the bright lights (at least all idnications were that he would, short contract and all). So did Paul, and would have left us had we drafted him. If we get Wiggins, who's to say that he stays on the team? What this team needs isn't guaranteed superstars, it needs character guys with talent who subscribe to a winning culture, and guess what? We have that. And if the team starts to tank games to get high draft picks, that winning culture goes -right- -out- -the- -window-.
 
cctrackstar said:
The Jazz will never tank. It's not in their DNA. Anyone wonder why Biendrins fell apart? I would bet that when the Warriors went on the tank he lost his drive, and if the Jazz do the same thing, Who's to say that Hayward/Favors/Enes/Burks/Burke don't do the same? All indications are that this team will work their tails off to offset their inexperience, and guess what? That's what builds Hall of Fame players in this system.

Karl Malone? Drafted 13. John Stockton? Drafted 16. Mid first round picks are some of the worst picks in the draft because so many teams draft on potential rather than ready made talent. That's the Jazz moniker. Notice, we drafted Deron, a proven talent and he leaves for the bright lights (at least all idnications were that he would, short contract and all). So did Paul, and would have left us had we drafted him. If we get Wiggins, who's to say that he stays on the team? What this team needs isn't guaranteed superstars, it needs character guys with talent who subscribe to a winning culture, and guess what? We have that. And if the team starts to tank games to get high draft picks, that winning culture goes -right- -out- -the- -window-.
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We traded deron to the bright lights? We can keep a superstar if we are smart about how we build the rest of the team. Lindsay is the right guy for that. He would not give in to a player demanding he sign certain guys.
 
facts?

cctrackstar said:
Anyone wonder why Biendrins fell apart? I would bet that when the Warriors went on the tank he lost his drive,.
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Interesting guess. Problem is that he lost his drive before the tank and continued to suck the following year when they were competitive.
 
cctrackstar said:
The Jazz will never tank. It's not in their DNA.
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Depends on how you define tank. I have no doubt that the players on the court this year will be playing to win. But you must see that the FO did not set this team up to win this year. Their overall objective is being very competitive in 3+ years. Will they lose games on purpose to get more ping pong balls? On that point, I'd agree the answer is no.
 
I think it is to early to tell but I believe that unfortunately no. None of them showed that they can be alpha dog yet. Assuming they can win it all would be to think that they are better then Stock, Malone, Hornacek and Russell ( core 4 of finals ) run or core 4 of WCF in 2007 ( Boozer, AK, Okur, Dwill). I just do not see it.
 
heyhey said:
The core 4 do not have the talent to win an NBA title, period. The Jazz will not get a Lebron James in free agency. If we want to win a title it will be after we draft an All NBA stud.
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You know, everyone said your mother didn't have the beauty to get laid. So what'd she do? find a bar, find a desperate looking guy, buy him shot after shot.. 9 months later you were born.

Anything can happen.
 
^^^^^^Damn bro, pretty harsh thing to say about a pretty funny dude like heyhey.
 
silesian said:
Because very young teams generally suck, even talented very young teams

Current stars who missed the playoffs their first 2 years on young teams: LBJ, Durant, Chris Paul

Remember how much the young Mavs with Nowitzki and Nash sucked? It took Nash 5 years to average 10+ ppg or 6+ apg.

Only one team with an effective age under 25 has ever won a championship (1977 Blazers)

35 wins will be a major accomplishment for Jazz. Playoffs would be a miracle.

Wait are 3-4 years to make judgment on this Jazz team, hopefully with player development and adding pieces (draft?) along the way. A winning record or playoffs is not a criteria for success for this team. Anyone hoping for this will likely be (unnecessarily) disappointed.
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I completely agree with this.

I probably made myself misunderstood by being overly harsh. The point is I keep running across posts that think this team is already rebuilt and all we need to do is let these guys develop and get a bench. Some jazzfanz members are setting themselves up for disappointment because they have set the floor @35 wins and playoffs as the ceiling.

I don't think you figure it out this year.

How long did it take Stockton and Malone to get to the final round? A long ****ing time. Would you rather Utah just have abandoned them?
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Never said we should abondon the core4. I just think we should have realistic expectations for them. I think we are quite possibly one key player away from being a true contender. I also think that player will need to be the top dog for this team to go all the way.
 
Assuming they can win it all would be to think that they are better then Stock, Malone, Hornacek and Russell ( core 4 of finals ) run or core 4 of WCF in 2007 ( Boozer, AK, Okur, Dwill). I just do not see it.
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Russell? Really? Burks can easily surpass Russell, Russell was barely a rotation player, and was every bit a coattail player. Hornacek, love him like we do, wasn't nearly as athletic as Hayward, so if Hayward can just polish off his shot a bit he'll surpass him. Malone says that Favors is more talented than he is, and you know Malone, he just says whatever comes into his head, he has no filter. We don't know on Burke yet, but he was drafted earlier than Stockton (since that seems to matter to the tank enthusiasts) As for Kanter, who knows? There's nothing holding him back though, does anyone really believe that he is injury prone?

Draft position: Malone 13, Stockton 16, Jeff Hornacek 46 (46!) Russell 45 (not surprised on that one)

Draft Positoin: Favors 3 Kanter 3 Hayward 9 Burks 12

In order to get the quality players that came so close to the NBA championship, the team needs to win a lot of games and draft between the mid first and the second round, because that's where their 'superstars' came from.

Down with the tank.
 
As for Kanter, who knows? There's nothing holding him back though, does anyone really believe that he is injury prone?


I don't think he is injury prone
 
cctrackstar said:
Russell? Really? Burks can easily surpass Russell, Russell was barely a rotation player, and was every bit a coattail player. Hornacek, love him like we do, wasn't nearly as athletic as Hayward, so if Hayward can just polish off his shot a bit he'll surpass him. Malone says that Favors is more talented than he is, and you know Malone, he just says whatever comes into his head, he has no filter. We don't know on Burke yet, but he was drafted earlier than Stockton (since that seems to matter to the tank enthusiasts) As for Kanter, who knows? There's nothing holding him back though, does anyone really believe that he is injury prone?

Draft position: Malone 13, Stockton 16, Jeff Hornacek 46 (46!) Russell 45 (not surprised on that one)

Draft Positoin: Favors 3 Kanter 3 Hayward 9 Burks 12

In order to get the quality players that came so close to the NBA championship, the team needs to win a lot of games and draft between the mid first and the second round, because that's where their 'superstars' came from.

Down with the tank.
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This is what I mean to even compare the two teams is nuts.
You really think that Kanter or Favors = Karl ****ing Malone.
John Stockton is the greatest point guard to ever play(sorry magic it's just the way I see it)
Hornacek was deadly. ****ing deadly. Hope Hayward can do it and he may, but he's not there yet.
It's a shame that Russel will always be remembered for mj shooting over him. His footwork on d was fantastic.
Kanter is better than Ostertag.

Stockton is the only player taken 16 in the draft to become a Hall of Famer.
 
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