Hayward getting extension???
- Thread starter udflyer
- Start date
I think by end of the next season a lot of people will listen how I evaluate players. Not trying to sound too cocky but I think that's simply for being new not for lack of arguments.
The way you write you remind me a lot of a friend who's so stubborn he can't admit being wrong. You don't do that openly, but the best I have read from you was "let's say we don't agree" when clearly wrong. Not speaking about this situation but generally.
I believe you when you say you follow basketball generally and you can obviously read stats. Not sure it's lack of interpretation skills or desire to have the last word in a conversation at all times but it's very inconsistent to refer to advanced stats and then switch over to such a superficial stat as FG%.
That just leaves so much room for interpretation.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Kicky admit he has a fault? lol. You're funny, vinyleone.
P.S. We miss the old vinylone. Yeah, the *******.
P.S. We miss the old vinylone. Yeah, the *******.
I want to add that I don't mean this personal. I have my flaws as well. Was just something I thought to notice in his style of discussing.
This also doesn't relate to the list since both are only opinions. So this was more towards the other discussions and battles he's fighting in this thread and elsewhere
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Virtually all chess players believe their ELO is too low as well.
I suspect you and would disagree about times that I have been "clearly wrong" (because of course). I acknowledged before I even made such a list that I was largely shooting from the hip and reasonable people could probably disagree with specific calls. I was more interested in the overall outcomes of large contracts rather than about trying to get into specific arguments regarding individual players. And yes, I like everyone else believe i'm right more often than is probably accurate. That said, this is a subject for which "right" isn't objective because there is no basketball god who can imprint the exact right contract number on a player's forehead.
To be honest the biggest reason I didn't go point by point with you is because you put your responses in a quote box and that made it harder for me to quote back, so I just took from it what I got from it. I spent a lot of time in the Bay Area watching Monta Ellis nearly nightly and have extreme difficulty buying into any viewpoint that he should even make $5 million annually much less that he's a bargain at a significant premium over that number.
Different arguments call for different things. If we want to have a conversation about Demar Derozan's defense that's something that requires an advanced look because things look superficially great in one-on-one matchups. If we want to ask the question, "Is Andres Biedrins a good free throw shooter" there isn't a lot of surface that needs scratching. Advanced stats are most useful (in my mind) when they can show you things that aren't necessarily intuitive. Their useful diagnostically when they confirm things that you already know, but the added complexity of going down that path isn't as useful in conversation.
-> I even stated that it's not about your list, since it's an opinion of both of us, but in general. You just used your style to brush off criticism by everyone.
You deliberately leaving out my followup statement is again your "style".
-> I think Monta Ellis is a very over-hated player. He's not very educated when you listen to interviews. But he's trying to help the team and very often instinctively makes a good basketball play. It's not always the best out he chooses or recognizes, but it's a viable one. And sometimes he is overaggressive and turns it over 3 times in a row or takes bad shots trying to cut a lead. When such a thing happens, first person I make responsible is the coach. If you see your player takes something personal and takes 2 shots and doesn't get into the "zone" or rhythm making them, you simply put them out of the game. Rick Carlisle is the 3rd best coach IMO behind Pop and Thibs. He'll manage Monta. And early games have been looking kind of fine minus his good looks not falling too often. If he'd be a good catch and shoot 3 point guy or pick and roll shooter he'd completely erase the athleticism he's lacking. Plays with heart as well. And I respect that.
->Of course you need to handle different situations differently but FG% is a bad measure in EVERY situation. And every statistician knows it. Take eFG% at all times when you say something about a players overall offense from the field.
UGLI baby
Well-Known Member
From the highest of compliments, to the lowest endorsement possible in just a matter of minutes for Mr. BTP.
Life's a roller coaster bro's, moe's, & doe's.