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Hayward getting extension???

Sirkickyass said:
T

And BTW: it might not be as true as it used to be but I know GVC used to watch a lot of Raptors games. If he's still got that level of involvement he's definitely this board's expert on the Raptors.
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Wait, so I am not expert on Raptors all of the sudden? Their every game here is on national TV so I am watching them a lot and maybe even more the GVC. And I will stick to my statement that DeRozan is worth every penny and next year it will look like bargain. Dude has great work ethic, body, footwork and desire to improve. He will be top 5 shooting guard in the future, just wait and see.
 
Tyreke Evans and Nic Batum are making $11 mil/year. I feel like that sets the market for Hayward, especially because I'm willing to bet another team would make him that kind of offer in free agency. Just look at how much money the Lakers are going to have this next off season.
 
AKMVP said:
Wait, so I am not expert on Raptors all of the sudden? Their every game here is on national TV so I am watching them a lot and maybe even more the GVC. And I will stick to my statement that DeRozan is worth every penny and next year it will look like bargain. Dude has great work ethic, body, footwork and desire to improve. He will be top 5 shooting guard in the future, just wait and see.
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1. You're one of the biggest fanboys in the history of Jazzfanz, and now you're a Raps homer (I've seen your posts on realgm...). I don't see why anyone would or should take your opinion seriously.

2. FWIW, I'm not an expert on DeRozan, and I don't watch a lot of Raps games. I shouldn't speak so confidently/emphatically. With that said, DeRozan is considered by most Raps fans, and knowledgeable basketball fans, to be a poor defender.
 
GVC said:
2. FWIW, I'm not an expert on DeRozan, and I don't watch a lot of Raps games. I shouldn't speak so confidently/emphatically. With that said, DeRozan is considered by most Raps fans, and knowledgeable basketball fans, to be a poor defender.
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I would argue with that, but how about so called rankings? This article ranks all shooting guards who played at least 1200 minutes last season, 47 of them qualified.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-defensive-shooting-guards-in-the-nba/page/3
You may dismiss it as bleacher report, but they are pretty much spot on with this ( the only thing strange thing to me here is Sefalosha being ranked outside of top 10)
Derozan is ranked 20. Means he is above average defender compared to all 47 shooting guards in NBA. That's what I meant, decent defender, not top 10 but not bottom 20 either. And if you read Raptors forums and interact with Raptors fans you must see how everybody is impressed by the progress DeRozan has shown so far. Nobody is saying there that he is overpaid or does not deserve 10mil a year. Which at the end of the day was arguing point with Sirki who considered his deal to be in bad range.
 
AKMVP said:
I would argue with that, but how about so called rankings? This article ranks all shooting guards who played at least 1200 minutes last season, 47 of them qualified.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-defensive-shooting-guards-in-the-nba/page/3
You may dismiss it as bleacher report, but they are pretty much spot on with this ( the only thing strange thing to me here is Sefalosha being ranked outside of top 10)
Derozan is ranked 20. Means he is above average defender compared to all 47 shooting guards in NBA. That's what I meant, decent defender, not top 10 but not bottom 20 either. And if you read Raptors forums and interact with Raptors fans you must see how everybody is impressed by the progress DeRozan has shown so far. Nobody is saying there that he is overpaid or does not deserve 10mil a year. Which at the end of the day was arguing point with Sirki who considered his deal to be in bad range.
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I had never heard of WAMS (which is what the ranking is) so I had to go back to find the methodology: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...best-defensive-point-guards-in-the-nba/page/4

I don't think there's any way to know if he did a good job without reviewing the video ourselves.
 
Sirkickyass said:
Or you wrote it while I was writing my post so I hadn't seen it yet. Either or.

Not sure why this topic has come up outside of that list unless you just decided you wanted to pick a bone with me. I'm not entirely certain who you are really so I have no bones to pick.

Here's the deal: I was trying to make a general point that isn't disproven by use of EFG% instead of FG%. But if I just give you an EFG number, those numbers aren't as immediately understandable.

Example: If I say player X is a shooting specialist but only makes 42% of his shots, that number intuitively feels low and that's because readers have more experience with what constitutes bad, average, and good FG% numbers, especially if you're a shooter.

If say player X is a shooting specialist but has en EFG% of 49.5% that's not particularly helpful to a large portion of the audience because that number isn't contextualized by years of reading experience. In fact it might be actively misleading because 49.5% will "feel" high. That means I've made the argument more digestible by saying it in a simpler, more easy to understand way for the majority of the board. (For those that don't know 49.5% EFG is very mediocre. It ranks Gallinari 201st in the league).

I'm not at a stats conference, I'm on a message board with people who think Monta Ellis and Demar Derozan are very good NBA players. You use the tools that you need at the time you need them. Big universal statements like ALWAYS use this stat and NEVER use that stat are their own form of fooling yourself. If the stats told different stories I'd have taken that into account.
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As I said before I wasn't trying to pick a bone or be disrespectful in any way on a personal level. I just tried to say: Man you're going lawyer style on a basketball board.

As for advanced stats: I think everyone using the interwebs today is familiar with the google website and how it can help you. If I read a stat measure the first time and I think it's important to understand it I type "effective field goal percentage" or "eFG" on google and then I learn and how it measures things. Silent "lurkers" would probably do the same. And quite frankly if people don't think taking the right stats is important then I think they're not worthy of an educated basketball conversation. With Gallinari you have to also consider that he's getting .41 free throws per field goal(which is very high) and has a true shooting percentage(this stat weighs in free throws trying to get a real shooting value) of 56% that's well above the league average of 53%. So his 3pt% is 37%, which alone would result in 55.5% eFG%. His weak 2 point shooting is compensated by his trips to the free throw line which even surpass the value of his 3 point shooting.
Also very few of his attempts are assisted, which means he's doing a lot of iso work which not often results in high efficiency but is very important in the league as you need the guy that creates a good look when the shotclock is down to 5 and the set you ran failed.
I don't like Gallos defense but I think he's a very skilled offense threat that's close to value at $8M annually.
He impacted his team's Offensive Rating which accounts for points scored per 100 possessions(1 possession is an offensive sequence that is ended by either scoring the ball, a defensive rebound or turning it over. An offensive rebound doesn't start another possession, but continues the current one) positively as his team scored 4 points less per 100 possessions when he was off the court.
Defensively opposite teams scored 1.2 less points per 100 possessions when Gallo was on the court. So his presence did even have a slightly positive influence on defense apparently.
Plus he's an underrated rebounder.
His deal is very fair since he's got iso skills and is a good ballhandler.
 
Maybe this was leaked / planted by Jazz so we're more relieved than upset when they don't reach an extension with Hayward
 
AKMVP said:
So let me get this straight... AK got his contract after posting 16.5pts, 8.1reb, 3.1ast, 1.9 stl, 2.8blk in a season where he was an ALL-Star and the second only player in NBA history to finish in both top 5 steals and blocks and some of you guys called it toxic and overpaid and whatever other names.... Now both Favors and Hayward getting almost same deals yet their numbers are not even close to AK's and you think it is good deals?
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Who exactly said this was a good deal?
 
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