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Alec has taken over as our alpha dog.

fishonjazz said:
Note how ugli, dala, and cyrone (3 of my favorite posters btw) have been absent from burks praise while he has been playing great ball.

Hell cyrone is still on the criticize tip.

I have argued with many posters many times this year (you included) about how good burks could be
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So...everyone who isn't a fanboy like you is a "hater"? That's ****ing retarded.
 
GVC said:
So...everyone who isn't a fanboy like you is a "hater"? That's ****ing retarded.
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Nope.
There have been plenty of poster who say some good things and some bad things about burks (myself included... i think burks defense is not good and his outside shot still could get alot better)

Some posters seems to rarely say good things about burks, while often criticizing him even when he plays well though
 
GVC said:
So...everyone who isn't a fanboy like you is a "hater"? That's ****ing retarded.
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When burks was struggling badly earlier this season everyone was very critical of alec, myself included and deservedly so.

Right now he is playing very good though so it seems a little haterish to bring up a bunch of things wrong with his recent play.
Lots of other guys on the jazz to criticize right now imo

I mean burks has arguably been the best player on the jazz lately but some posters want to talk about a turnover, or how one demensional he is, or how bad of a passer, or how selfish, or how bad of a shooter he is.... all while ignoring his positives
 
fishonjazz said:
Nope.
There have been plenty of poster who say some good things and some bad things about burks (myself included... i think burks defense is not good and his outside shot still could get alot better)

Some posters seems to rarely say good things about burks, while often criticizing him even when he plays well though
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Woe is Alec Burks.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Woe is Alec Burks.
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Ya
I have reached my burks defense quota for the day.

Im done now so this thread can be derailed into the "all the things wrong with burks" thread and i will just stay out of it
:-)
 
fishonjazz said:
This would be great but since it rarely happens, even when he is playing great, he should start so that he can actually get those 32 minutrs on a nightly basis
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What? True, that doesn't happen, but neither does Alec starting, so in either case Ty needs to do something else. To be fair, I quickly took a look at the NBA's minutes leaders, and the only bench player who I saw that receives 30+ minutes per night when coming off the bench is J.R. Smith (31 minutes per game as a reserve).

If you start Alec and Gordo, you probably want to sub one out at around the 6 minute mark of the 1st/3rd to ensure at least one of them is on the court at all times (even though Gordo hasn't done anything particularly well this year). It's unfortunate that Gordo hasn't shown an ability to guard bigger 3s this year, even with the extra weight, as that (plus having a 3rd decent on-ball perimeter player) would make the decision a no-brainer. Alec's been the Jazz's best offensive player for a while now.
 
fishonjazz said:
Nope.
There have been plenty of poster who say some good things and some bad things about burks (myself included... i think burks defense is not good and his outside shot still could get alot better)

Some posters seems to rarely say good things about burks, while often criticizing him even when he plays well though
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Burks hate is non-existent. There's nothing close to hate, not even the realist posts in response to your constant Burks walks on water he's D-Wade posting. You calling that conversation hate or negativity comes across as overly defensive/sensitive about a non-issue.

If you don't want that "hate" out there then why are you driving it?
 
franklin said:
your constant Burks walks on water he's D-Wade posting.
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i have never once said burks is as good as wade was, and i acknowledge burks faults.

Carry on

Corbin rules
 
Crawlnstall said:
I know everyone has different opinions on everything related to the Jazz, but can't we agree that Burks has shown the most growth this season of the core guys? I've always been a big Burks fan and am excited for how he has been playing.
Is he an all star? No way. His defense isn't great and his game isn't as diverse as we'd like. I would love for him to get a 3 point shot and be a better passer. But remember this dude is 22, is getting more minutes than ever and was picked up 12th in the draft. Its easy to pick a bust at #12.
Lets not hate on him, and just enjoy his improvement and what he can bring to the team
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I'd put Favors in there as well. His importance to this team is evident by how bad they play without him. He's had a very nice, albeit quiet season.

If Burks keeps this pace up then he should at least be in the discussion for league top 10 MIP (sorry fish for "hating" on him by not putting him over Davis, Bledsoe, Stephenson).
 
Scorpjazz said:
If Alex is our alpha dog, we get lotto for next few years. he is decent but very very one dimensional. Not saying Hayward is the answer either..keep em both, good 3-4 options, maybe Gtime can move up to 2 option someday...Alex is 3-4 at best
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I don't even think alec can be a 4th option

BTP said:
So I don't like his defense. It's Melo'esque. aka non existent.
He takes difficult shots often. While they go in right now, I still wanna see consistency with the ability to overcome off nights before I jump on the Burks bandwagon. He hasn't shown that as of yet. Plus some efficiency would be nice. But see yourself.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/burksal01.html
https://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=202692&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame
The differences in evaluation of bbalref and NBA.com I explain by both having a different interpretation of possessions(NBA.com seems to count a play that occurs after an offensive board as a seperate possession while bballref says: They kept the possession alive via O-Reb.
You can see a 31.1% usage rate in February. That's superstar touches. His TOs have gone up since getting more opportunities.
Look at the huge discrepancy in the off rtg column between wins and losses. 10.6
You know what that means? Bill Simmons would call him a "heat-check-guy". And that's why he's coming off the bench. Because he doesn't have consistency and with this Jazz lineup apparently an off night of him hurts his team.
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I wish his defense were as good al Carmelo, its worse than non existent. He will probably stop making those difficult shots soon and have a lot more off nights. he is very inefficient too.

Cyrone Torbin said:
Needs to work on his drive and dishing game if he ever wants to surpass being a scorer. Sometimes he isn't aware of how many people are collapsing on him and he tries a shot that is unnecessarily difficult when he could just kick it out.
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Agreed. He is a very poor passer right now and takes lots of unnecessarily difficult shots. Very poor shot selection
BTP said:
Honestly I don't see the effort in most games. He takes plays off, his help is translucent and off the ball he loses often track of his man. He closes out okay and 1v1 defense I don't like his stance and decision making.
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He is not a hard worker at all and has no idea what he is doing on defense most of the time.
BTP said:
I have already watched a full game solely focusing on Burks and writing it down play by play detailing his performance. Nowadays I see a 8 min summary usually and I see exactly what I've seen in that in depth when other teams score on him ;)

I also don't say that others play better defense or stuff. But James Harden has a 60% True Shooting, scores 10 points more per 100 possessions, hits 3s, doesn't go where the defense wants him to go, instead goes where wants through the middle and makes the defense collapse. Burks assists are created through misdirection plays, by doing a seemingly bad move, then with the help of the screener capitalizing on the defense doing what's predicted and finding the hole. Plus Harden plays 10 more mins, so fatigue is a bigger factor for him.
I don't know I just wanna see Burks playing consistent and playing smart and playing efficient. If he can do that for 1 season. Then I'm talking about throwing money at him. Right now he's between 4 and 6 annually at most. fringe starter. And he's fringe starter because quality of NBA shooting guards is so incredibly low. Quality reserve is what he would be on deeper positions like PG, SF.
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I don't think burks can play consistently or smart for a season. he will probably never be worth 4 million per year and should definitely never start. Put him at the end of the bench
franklin said:
WHat happens when teams start game planning to stop his one-dimensional scoring attack? You want Burks in that ISO role with no offensive movement? I don't.

Alec needs to develop a triple threat position (among other things). Then we'll begin talking alpha dog.
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Once teams game plan to stop his drive and score game he will be worthless because that's his only dimension. Cant pass, cant shoot, cant play defense
 
franklin said:
I'd put Favors in there as well. His importance to this team is evident by how bad they play without him. He's had a very nice, albeit quiet season.

If Burks keeps this pace up then he should at least be in the discussion for league top 10 MIP (sorry fish for "hating" on him by not putting him over Davis, Bledsoe, Stephenson).
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Sounds like a compliment to me. Don't know why you think that would require an apology to me.
But he is way too one dimensional and once teams game plan for him to stop his drive he will be worthless anyways so don't worry about him making any MIP lists
 
franklin said:
Why you get so angry every time someone doesn't believe you that Burks is an All Star? You seem extra angry today.
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Why would that get me angry?
I don't think burks is an all star

I think he has some skills that could make him an all star some day though
 
fishonjazz said:
Sounds like a compliment to me. Don't know why you think that would require an apology to me.
But he is way too one dimensional and once teams game plan for him to stop his drive he will be worthless anyways so don't worry about him making any MIP lists
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He IS one dimensional as an alpha dog. Why are you being so defensive and making it into more than it is when you already agreed with me on that in this thread? The thread was about Alec = alpha dog. Context matters, fish.
 
franklin said:
He IS one dimensional as an alpha dog. Why are you being so defensive and making it into more than it is when you already agreed with me on that in this thread? The thread was about Alec = alpha dog. Context matters, fish.
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yes you are right.

As an alpha dog burks is very one dimensional
 
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Cyrone Torbin said:
FishBro, not saying Alec can't pass. I think you are just looking at the stats page so you can't see what actually happened?

That play Burks drove baseline and was forced out of bounds, he was actually fall out of bounds and found Marvin under the rim. It was a good pass for sure. We all know Alec is capable of making good passes. The thing I'm talking about is when Burks is going to the rim and instead forces up a difficult attempt. The play you cited Burks didn't have a look at the rim, so he was forced to pass.

Can he make the pass when both options are available and choose the best option?
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Those circus shots doe... I want him taking a higher % of those than most players.
 
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