Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

[Deleted member 848]

The armed militias are honestly making this look worse for them.

Yes, but they are also drawing much more media attention than a simple protest would have. Whatever ends up happening, I anticipate that the conduct of the BLM will be changing once this fiasco is over and done with. If the ranchers had simply bent over and let the BLM extort them with all of these AR-15s and what not, would have the media coverage been the same? That's the million dollar question-- and personally, I would answer no.

I have no dogs in this fight, and I am not siding with any side here; but many posters do raise an interesting point (babe, PKM) regarding the strangeness with the operation of the BLM.

 

[Dr. Jones]

^ Interesting.

Politician thinking it's not the politician's fault but those that voted for them. lol

I want to be clear I'm not attacking Trout, btw.

 

[Hantlers]

It does matter. I just think that this fight has moved beyond that for the people on the ground "fighting" it. I base this off of listening to the people supporting the Bundys.

If you cannot hear that then you do not understand the people IN this case.

I think the majority of the people (the militia) that are down there are complete morons just looking for an excuse to get pissed off at the government. They want to make this an issue, they want something to happen. I cannot respect or agree with that. The people "supporting" the Bundy's don't give a **** about them, they're there to further their own cause.

 

[Deleted member 848]

How about Occam's Razor? A bunch of rednecks from the dusty sticks have a long history of not obeying the law, fighting against the law, and threatening violence against those that have to uphold the laws that are being broken. If that's the case, you better believe that (assuming I'm in charge of things) I'm not going to send one or two men out there by themselves to try and serve this guys punishment. There is no conspiracy here, folks, just a regular enforcement issue that has been escalating for years and years. This didn't just happen overnight, it has been working up to this point for decades.



The saddest thing about what you just said (besides the fact that you buy into all of the "secret agenda" ********) is that you blame the government and the judges for what is going on, or for what you perceive is going on. News flash for all of you government haters, it is your vote, or more likely, your lack of a vote, that put all of these bad guys in the positions of power. Everyone is super quick to blame everyone or anything related to the government, but those same people will balk like Dwight Gooden with a man on third if you bring up actually "getting involved".


Ugh, seriously? I love watching conspiracy videos on YouTube. I love watching all of the conspiracy stuff that has been flooding my TV for the last few years. It's entertaining and thought provoking, but it's also ********. Again, Occam's Razor.


Well, duh. The People voted for those people, so I think your assumption is safe. As for the government taking things too far, well, again we will have nobody to blame but ourselves. The real problem, in my humble opinion, isn't the people that will be "asleep", it is actually the people who are AWAKE and choose not to get involved that will be the downfall of America. We all type a mean post from the comfort of our favorite computer chair, but we'll be damned if we lift a finger to help get good people elected.*

*PKM doesn't fall into this category, obviously. Just need to clear that up because it reads like I'm attacking him.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to E.J. Wells again.

 

[Stoked]

I think the majority of the people (the militia) that are down there are complete morons just looking for an excuse to get pissed off at the government. They want to make this an issue, they want something to happen. I cannot respect or agree with that. The people "supporting" the Bundy's don't give a **** about them, they're there to further their own cause.

I'd say that it is 70/30 with the minority actually being there for the Bundy's casue. The rest are as you said, morons looking for a fight.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I also agree and I think it continues to get worse. Today, it's still early, is a day that is supposed to be a big rallying time for militia members at the Bundy ranch. Some people have estimate that up to 5,000 will show up. Now I seriously doubt that but even if 2-300 show up all it takes is one happy trigger finger by a federal agent or militia member and this thing goes hot.

Also at what point does the fed increase their response to keep pace with the growing resistance's response? Does the FBI get involved? Perhaps the national guard get called out? B ut NV has a republican governor that has already expressed sympathy for the protestors. If he calls out the National Guard does he do so for the BLM or the protestors?

Edit: SOmething else that surprises me is that no agency/official seems to be leading a sit down to talk about this and resolve it peacefully. No one seems to want to get involved in a way to reduce tension. All I see is two sides ratcheting up the pressure on each other with everyone else just stadnign around them watching it happen. When does someone step in and who should that be?

Excellent question (in the edit)

 

[Hantlers]

Yes, but they are also drawing much more media attention than a simple protest would have. Whatever ends up happening, I anticipate that the conduct of the BLM will be changing once this fiasco is over and done with. If the ranchers had simply bent over and let the BLM extort them with all of these AR-15s and what not, would have the media coverage been the same? That's the million dollar question-- and personally, I would answer no.

I have no dogs in this fight, and I am not siding with any side here; but many posters do raise an interesting point (babe, PKM) regarding the strangeness with the operation of the BLM.

1) I've already said I don't agree with how the BLM went about this.

2) Trout makes a good point in regards to rednecks with weapons. We're feisty, and I believe the Bundy's have made threatening statements before. The BLM still went overboard.

3) Personally, I would rather get attention for my cause without a bunch of activists skewing the issue. Look at it here, instead of talking about the validity of the government taking the cattle, we're talking about whether or not there's going to be a fight between the government and the militia. Who is that helping? Certainly not the Bundy's. Yes, they've gotten more attention, but I would argue that the attention isn't helping them at all.

4) AR-15's are not military weapons. 99% chance they don't have AR-15's…I realize this doesn't really matter, but after all the gun debates, little things like this annoy me.

 

[Stoked]

1) I've already said I don't agree with how the BLM went about this.

2) Trout makes a good point in regards to rednecks with weapons. We're feisty, and I believe the Bundy's have made threatening statements before. The BLM still went overboard.

3) Personally, I would rather get attention for my cause without a bunch of activists skewing the issue. Look at it here, instead of talking about the validity of the government taking the cattle, we're talking about whether or not there's going to be a fight between the government and the militia. Who is that helping? Certainly not the Bundy's. Yes, they've gotten more attention, but I would argue that the attention isn't helping them at all.

4) AR-15's are not military weapons. 99% chance they don't have AR-15's…I realize this doesn't really matter, but after all the gun debates, little things like this annoy me.

I would say that the Bundy's are making honest efforts to make sure that their story is being heard in addition to the one of their "supporters". FB pages, Youtube videos, interviews (including Fox News), newspaper articles...

There are videos out that clearly show members of BOTH sides carrying AR15s and other similar weapons.

 

[franklin]

I agree that the BLM should have went in fully armed for their own protection.

Also, I'm a fan of free enterprise so I think Bundy should be fined to protect the integrity of the cattle market.

 

[Hantlers]

I would say that the Bundy's are making honest efforts to make sure that their story is being heard in addition to the one of their "supporters"

FB pages, Youtube videos, interviews (including Fox News), newspaper articles...
There are videos out that clearly show members of BOTH sides carrying AR15s and other similar weapons.

You might call it an AR-15, but they aren't AR-15's.

The civilians, they have AR-15's.

The military, they like to be able to have semi-auto and fully-auto at the flip of a switch. While it looks similar to an AR-15, it sure as hell isn't the same.

Does it matter? Absolutely not. I just wanted to clarify.

 

[Deleted member 848]

1) I've already said I don't agree with how the BLM went about this.

2) Trout makes a good point in regards to rednecks with weapons. We're feisty, and I believe the Bundy's have made threatening statements before. The BLM still went overboard.

Yup.

3) Personally, I would rather get attention for my cause without a bunch of activists skewing the issue. Look at it here, instead of talking about the validity of the government taking the cattle, we're talking about whether or not there's going to be a fight between the government and the militia. Who is that helping? Certainly not the Bundy's. Yes, they've gotten more attention, but I would argue that the attention isn't helping them at all.

Of course, but how much attention would your cause get? That's the question man. Trust me, there are thousands of people in the continent protesting for a given issue at this moment, but nothing is being done, and minimal media coverage is given. So the trade-off is this: Would you rather compromise much of your message in order to get it syndicated nation-wide across news-networks? Or would you rather stay true, but risk the fact that no one outside your local-area will ever hear about it?

4) AR-15's are not military weapons. 99% chance they don't have AR-15's…I realize this doesn't really matter, but after all the gun debates, little things like this annoy me.

As one who truly knows nothing about guns, merci.

 

[Stoked]

You might call it an AR-15, but they aren't AR-15's.

The civilians, they have AR-15's.

The military, they like to be able to have semi-auto and fully-auto at the flip of a switch. While it looks similar to an AR-15, it sure as hell isn't the same.

Does it matter? Absolutely not. I just wanted to clarify.

Oh OK, I see what you are saying. I thought you meant that those caliber of weapons where not even there. My mistake.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Btw, my wife is probably THE MOST connected person to the situation. We have 7 guys down there that are using our home as base. She is getting pics, video, and updates from no less than 100 people right now. Probably averages an update every 5 minutes.

 

[TroutBum]

^ Interesting.

Politician thinking it's not the politician's fault but those that voted for them. lol

I want to be clear I'm not attacking Trout, btw.

I would hope that since you were a supporter of my campaigns that you know I am far from a politician. I have first hand knowledge about apathetic voters who are happy to show up and complain when something affects them, but could give two ****s the rest of the time. I spent over three years trying to get my community to stand up and be proud, and for all of my efforts, we turned in one of the lowest voter turnouts in the state. I would have bet you all the tea in China that we would have had a top-ten number in voter turnout based on what the people would say to me when I knocked their doors. Alas, the comfy computer chair won, again.

Blaming the elected officials is like blaming the fire for burning down your house, and excusing the kid who was playing with matches in the living room.

 

[Stoked]

Btw, my wife is probably THE MOST connected person to the situation. We have 7 guys down there that are using our home as base. She is getting pics, video, and updates from no less than 100 people right now. Probably averages an update every 5 minutes.

My wife is attempting to follow along via FB, youtube, friends and family that are there (or have been) and what articles/reports there are.

 

[Hantlers]

Of course, but how much attention would your cause get? That's the question man. Trust me, there are thousands of people in the continent protesting for a given issue at this moment, but nothing is being done, and minimal media coverage is given. So the trade-off is this: Would you rather compromise much of your message in order to get it syndicated nation-wide across news-networks? Or would you rather stay true, but risk the fact that no one outside your local-area will ever hear about it?

No, I would not compromise the message. That's what gets people confused, what skews things. You gots to keep your priorities in order. If it's just the attention you want, then what are you fighting for? If you're willing to skew your message to get more attention, then perhaps the message you want to get out isn't that important anyways.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I would hope that since you were a supporter of my campaigns that you know I am far from a politician. I have first hand knowledge about apathetic voters who are happy to show up and complain when something affects them, but could give two ****s the rest of the time. I spent over three years trying to get my community to stand up and be proud, and for all of my efforts, we turned in one of the lowest voter turnouts in the state. I would have bet you all the tea in China that we would have had a top-ten number in voter turnout based on what the people would say to me when I knocked their doors. Alas, the comfy computer chair won, again.

Blaming the elected officials is like blaming the fire for burning down your house, and excusing the kid who was playing with matches in the living room.

I don't know.. is it the non-voter's fault? Or is it that every elected official gets persuaded by special interest groups, lobbyists, elites??

What's the head?

 

[franklin]

Free speech zones are ridiculous, but this ridiculousness has been around for decades now. And with the current makeup of the Supreme Court, they're here to stay, since none of those clowns give a damn about the Constitution or liberty.

And since when do cops think they have some sort of right to not be filmed in public?

These judges are some of the most fervently pro-Constitution and liberty people in the nation. It's basically their job description.

The saddest thing about what you just said (besides the fact that you buy into all of the "secret agenda" ********) is that you blame the government and the judges for what is going on, or for what you perceive is going on. News flash for all of you government haters, it is your vote, or more likely, your lack of a vote, that put all of these bad guys in the positions of power. Everyone is super quick to blame everyone or anything related to the government, but those same people will balk like Dwight Gooden with a man on third if you bring up actually "getting involved".

I think most our politicians are pretty damn good people and well intentioned. A lot of Americans are spiteful little bitches who cast judgment on politicians because they're too damn stupid or lazy to try and understand the complex decisions these folks have to make. Politicians make plenty of mistakes, but they're usually well intentioned mistakes.

 

[Deleted member 848]

No, I would not compromise the message. That's what gets people confused, what skews things. You gots to keep your priorities in order. If it's just the attention you want, then what are you fighting for? If you're willing to skew your message to get more attention, then perhaps the message you want to get out isn't that important anyways.

That's an overly-idealistic way of thinking about it. I'll let you ponder it some more. Logical processes like these don't always pan out in the real-world-- particularly in a fight when the person you're taking on is significantly more powerful than yourself.


In the mean-time, I'l head back to my finals-studying. I'll try to keep up with the progression of this.

 

[Hantlers]

That's an overly-idealistic way of thinking about it. I'll let you ponder it some more.


In the mean-time, I'l head back to my finals-studying. I'll try to keep up with the progression of this.

Call it as you may, I'm just responding with what I would do.

At the end of the day, none of this happens if Bundy just paid his damn fees.

So if I'm going to blame anybody, I'm gonna blame him.