What an embarrassing night for all Jazz fans (4/14/14). Tank crowd can suck a fat one. (LONG)

[Bodhi]

Disagreed. Rondo and Green are on books through next season - who knows how either figure into their plans. Sullinger/Olynyk pales in comparison to Favors/Kanter. Sullinger is a fringe starter on a mediocre team at best. They hardly have a foundation in place.

Eat your hearts out, every other sports based forum in the world. This is the only kind of insight you can get from a former DII athlete.

**** you, Clutch Fanz!

 

[Flc]

Jazz and Celts are completely different situations, and not really comparable. Celts are totally rebuilding their foundation/roster, whereas the Jazz have the foundation in place. The Jazz had the foundation in place heading into this season. That's where my issue is. The rebuilding process was halted for a full season on account of Miller refusing to pony up and remove that lameduck, ****sack coach of ours.

You're very confused. The Jazz have part of their foundation in place. They don't have a bench, but more importantly, they don't have a star; a number one option; a max guy. You need one of those to win a championship in the NBA, with the exception of that one Detroit team that everyone cites even though it was a clear, clear outlier. So the options were clear - to many people on this board, to our GM, and to our owner - we could either:

1. Commit to a full rebuild, which would involve gutting the franchise, keeping as many of the meaningful foundation pieces as possible (see: our young core), and working to draft a potential star.
2. Not commit to a full rebuild, overpay for a set of veteran free-agents that would take us to the first round of the playoffs and likely no further, and move through the next half-decade in mediocrity.

Our GM chose number one. That was the right choice for any small market franchise, as evidenced by the decisions made by nearly every owner and coach of a small market franchise who has made it to the NBA finals, many of whom probably played high school sports as well, though not necessarily Division II.

TLDR: You're off your rocker.

 

[Flc]

Also, on the point that we should have fired Corbin... yes, we should have. A better (and likely more expensive coach) would have developed our young players better. That didn't happen. Oh well. Let's get a star and see who they bring in. If they bring Corbin back, this board is going to go nuts - but every indication suggests that will be a very remote possibility.

 

[Avery]

If you don't understand why tanking is the only way to build a potential contender, I pose to you the following question: who was the last FA we signed who was a consummate top ten player in the league and would be the piece to turn our fortunes around?

I'll wait.

 

[HighlandHomie]

You're very confused. The Jazz have part of their foundation in place. They don't have a bench, but more importantly, they don't have a star; a number one option; a max guy. You need one of those to win a championship in the NBA, with the exception of that one Detroit team that everyone cites even though it was a clear, clear outlier. So the options were clear - to many people on this board, to our GM, and to our owner - we could either:

1. Commit to a full rebuild, which would involve gutting the franchise, keeping as many of the meaningful foundation pieces as possible (see: our young core), and working to draft a potential star.
2. Not commit to a full rebuild, overpay for a set of veteran free-agents that would take us to the first round of the playoffs and likely no further, and move through the next half-decade in mediocrity.

Our GM chose number one. That was the right choice for any small market franchise, as evidenced by the decisions made by nearly every owner and coach of a small market franchise who has made it to the NBA finals, many of whom probably played high school sports as well, though not necessarily Division II.

TLDR: You're off your rocker.

Man - you totally missed the point of everything I've posted. I've clearly stated a hundred times since the preseason, I'm all for the rebuilding phase and accepted missing the playoffs. I attack the notion that the Jazz had to lose for losing sake. I felt our foundation (five of a potential top 7 or 8 rotation players on a contender) was good enough to win many more games this year than they did (and would still miss the playoffs). Not sure how many other ways I can say it.

I guess you, and many of the others with differing viewpoints couldn't really accept anything I wrote because I answered a question I was asked about playing competitively.

It is a fact that those who never played competitive sports cannot understand the intangible elements that go into building a champion.

 

[YB85]

Suck a fat one? Well, don't mind if I do.

Love a good victory cigar.

 

[HighlandHomie]

If you don't understand why tanking is the only way to build a potential contender, I pose to you the following question: who was the last FA we signed who was a consummate top ten player in the league and would be the piece to turn our fortunes around?

I'll wait.

Teams can build through the draft, FA and trades. Who's to say DL won't trade our two picks this year for a proven vet? I certainly wouldn't be opposed if the deal was right.

The entire crux of everything I've posted in this thread is that rebuilding/restructuring was inevitable. However, there's a line between letting a predominantly young, talented team that won't make the playoffs take their lumps through the course of a season and a full-fledged dumpster fire.

 

[Bloopy]

Teams can build through the draft, FA and trades. Who's to say DL won't trade our two picks this year for a proven vet? I certainly wouldn't be opposed if the deal was right.

Because DL isn't mentally retarded.

The entire crux of everything I've posted in this thread is that rebuilding/restructuring was inevitable

Then why are you arguing with yourself? Have you seen "Me, Myself & Irene" recently?

However, there's a line between letting a predominantly young, talented team that won't make the playoffs take their lumps through the course of a season and a full-fledged dumpster fire.

There's plenty of positives that came out of this season. Burke's clutchness, Kanter's offensive progression, Favors consistency, Alec's progression and our young guys getting big minutes over the course of a full NBA season. We also learned that there's no way in hell we will think of giving Hayward anything close to a max contract. By giving our young guys quality minutes and losing at the same time, we were able to develop our young pieces we already have and set ourselves in position to draft a POTENTIAL franchise-changing player. As a small market team, it was a winning recipe. Now go put in your old DII VHS tapes and lube up.

 

[Scramantha]

You know what Highland Homie?

I'm kinda featuring you right now. I admire your willingness to have an unpopular - yet ethical - position and stand by it. You would be a good neighbor.

With that said, it feels like you're sot of confusing the NBA with Friday Night Lights highschool football or something. As if character building or some sh*t is a key feature of winning teams in this league. And yeah... but... ummm, no. Both Hayward and Burke defined a winning mentality in their NCAA runs. Yet, the team still sucks. I don't think they need a lesson on what it takes to try your best. I think they need some legit NBA All-Star around them. I'm not saying this draft will get them that, but it will get them a chance at it.

 

[b_line]

You know what Highland Homie?

I'm kinda featuring you right now. I admire your willingness to have an unpopular - yet ethical - position and stand by it. You would be a good neighbor.

With that said, it feels like you're sot of confusing the NBA with Friday Night Lights highschool football or something. As if character building or some sh*t is a key feature of winning teams in this league. And yeah... but... ummm, no. Both Hayward and Burke defined a winning mentality in their NCAA runs. Yet, the team still sucks. I don't think they need a lesson on what it takes to try your best. I think they need some legit NBA All-Star around them. I'm not saying this draft will get them that, but it will get them a chance at it.

You need to post more than 60 times in 2 years. Great post.

 

[Flc]

Man - you totally missed the point of everything I've posted. I've clearly stated a hundred times since the preseason, I'm all for the rebuilding phase and accepted missing the playoffs. I attack the notion that the Jazz had to lose for losing sake. I felt our foundation (five of a potential top 7 or 8 rotation players on a contender) was good enough to win many more games this year than they did (and would still miss the playoffs). Not sure how many other ways I can say it.

I guess you, and many of the others with differing viewpoints couldn't really accept anything I wrote because I answered a question I was asked about playing competitively.

It is a fact that those who never played competitive sports cannot understand the intangible elements that go into building a champion.

You do realize that the worse record you have, the far greater chance you have of landing a top pick, and that while their are gems to be had and found later in the draft, that the highest picks are far more likely to turn into superstars or All Stars than lower picks?

It isn't just a matter of "missing the playoffs."

And since you're on this soapbox of the effect of these 'intangible elements', let's consider some historical examples - there are countless more, but these were the first I thought of:

OKC Thunder were 20-62 (as Supersonics) and 23-59 before they then went 50-32 in 09-10. Durant played that entire 23-59 season.
The Miami heat won 20 some odd games in 2002, the year before signing Odom and drafting Wade. The rest of their roster was identical, and many remained when the Heat won the 2006 championship.
And here are the number of wins achieved annually by the Dallas Mavericks in the years FOLLOWING Dirk Nowitzki's draft: 26, 24, 20, 19.

Three good examples of players not being effected, in the long-term, by seasons of losing - in other words, a historical, evidence-based refutation of your entire argument.

But you did play Division II high school sports, so maybe we should just go with what you're saying anyway.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Care to articulate what your difference is with those statements? Or perhaps I can clarify something I've said that is currently baffling to you. Or are you only interested in tossing out worthless quips to someone who would like to engage in thoughtful basketball discussion?

You're wasting your breath. It's not sufficient for some to disagree with your post and, if they care enough to, explain why, they feel this compelling need to mock it, mock you and just be arseholes. That's who they are. Or at least, that's who their internet personas are. The internet is full of them. See any discussion thread on any news website.

Uglibaby is a dick. More, he takes pride in it. I'll bet he takes my post as a compliment (luv ya buddy). You're pissing in the wind my friend.