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What an embarrassing night for all Jazz fans (4/14/14). Tank crowd can suck a fat one. (LONG)

Man - you totally missed the point of everything I've posted. I've clearly stated a hundred times since the preseason, I'm all for the rebuilding phase and accepted missing the playoffs. I attack the notion that the Jazz had to lose for losing sake. I felt our foundation (five of a potential top 7 or 8 rotation players on a contender) was good enough to win many more games this year than they did (and would still miss the playoffs). Not sure how many other ways I can say it.

I guess you, and many of the others with differing viewpoints couldn't really accept anything I wrote because I answered a question I was asked about playing competitively.

It is a fact that those who never played competitive sports cannot understand the intangible elements that go into building a champion.

You're right. We probably could have won more games. Where would that get us though? This team obviously doesn't have enough to compete for a playoff spot let alone a title. If you aren't in it to win a title, why waste your time? Moral victories aren't getting this team over the hump.
 
You seem to have displayed the reading comprehension level of a toddler, as I conveyed little of what you assert. I've said from the start I was fine with missing the playoffs this year based on our roster. DL working under handcuff of Greg Miller (too cheap to buy out Corbin and hire a real coach while Ty was still on contract), and DA got his coach - their roster even worse than Jazz talent-wise. Of course I have the confidence DL can put together a contender through the draft and free agency. He's going to, hopefully, get to hand pick his next head coach.

Jazz and Celts are completely different situations, and not really comparable. Celts are totally rebuilding their foundation/roster, whereas the Jazz have the foundation in place. The Jazz had the foundation in place heading into this season. That's where my issue is. The rebuilding process was halted for a full season on account of Miller refusing to pony up and remove that lameduck, ****sack coach of ours.

Can you give other examples of Miller being cheap?

Surely he's being cheap on the arena. He hasn't updated the acoustics or video board in the arena for nine months.

How about roster? No bad contracts on the roster. No eating of that money in seven days or so.

How about draft? They only bought one draft pick last year.

Damn, Miller is cheap.

You're wasting your breath. It's not sufficient for some to disagree with your post and, if they care enough to, explain why, they feel this compelling need to mock it, mock you and just be arseholes. That's who they are. Or at least, that's who their internet personas are. The internet is full of them. See any discussion thread on any news website.

Uglibaby is a dick. More, he takes pride in it. I'll bet he takes my post as a compliment (luv ya buddy). You're pissing in the wind my friend.

When you start your thread with "The following may sound douchey, but since it's true, you'll have to deal with it" and have inaccuracies and poor reasoning after said line, you're fully open to ridicule.
 
Jazz do need to learn how to win games. And yes, it's more important than a draft pick. But if you acquire a superstar candidate, you have a product in your hand for the association to support with advertising etc. So you have a bigger chance of growing your franchise into a true contender for the ages.

You see, the problem with the Jazz is, they might have picked the wrong guy to control this process. Corbin's Jazz team was one of the most high potential young roster in the league but this season showed that he is lacking the ability to lead them to a point. A point like the Spurs team. Or a point like OKC.
 
Started on a state title team and played DII for four years. I was hoping some members of Jazzfanz could talk basketball on a basketball message board. If you disagree that developing a winning culture is vital to building a title contender that is fair, but hopefully you can take some time to provide some reasoning as I have.

So you want to have a dialogue yet your title to the thread - Tank crowd can suck a fat one suggest otherwise. The Jazz have a winning culture already, you make it sound like we are the Bobcats or the old Clippers. The Jazz organization has a plan and many fans who whine about one or two losing seasons need to take a chill pill. When the Jazz moved to SLC they sucked and almost didn't survive because a lack of fan support due to losing. Then when they started winning Jazz fans became spoiled. Now if the Jazz have a decade of losing then your argument would be stronger

However, The sky isn't falling and the Jazz organization isn't crumbling before your eyes. There are a lot of good teams especially in the West so progress may be slower than people want. Throw in a VERY VERY young team with little experience playing in the NBA and together and you are going to see games like you did against the Lakers. I didn't see the team throw in the towel and not try. I really think your complaint demonstrations how many Jazz fans feel entitled to have a winning team and lacks a perspective necessary to build a championship team.

The problem with losing franchises is they panic and start giving away draft picks, firing coaches/GMs and overspending in FA because the fans demand a winner immediately and they end up like the Knicks or Cleveland or Bobcats etc. Right now the Jazz are not even close to being those types of franchises, so be patient and stop thinking "tank" fans or the Jazz have anything to be ashamed about because we don't. We live in the reality of the NBA which is there are times when you have to be bad in order to be good (OKC, Portland etc.)
 
Jazz do need to learn how to win games. And yes, it's more important than a draft pick. But if you acquire a superstar candidate, you have a product in your hand for the association to support with advertising etc. So you have a bigger chance of growing your franchise into a true contender for the ages.

You see, the problem with the Jazz is, they might have picked the wrong guy to control this process. Corbin's Jazz team was one of the most high potential young roster in the league but this season showed that he is lacking the ability to lead them to a point. A point like the Spurs team. Or a point like OKC.

I think you are overrating our roster. Very few young talented teams win consistently in the NBA. The Jazz have to learn to play as a team in the NBA. Have Jazz fans forgotten that Stockton and Malone didn't get to the finals until the end of their careers. There are a lot of good team especially in the West so talent is everywhere. Yes a great coach might have squeezed a few more victories out of this team but both the Spurs and OKC had to learn to win games especially OKC.
 
The following may sound douchey, but since it's true, you'll have to deal with it: if you have never played competitive sports, particularly basketball, you are most likely in the pro-tank crowd. Here is why that's such a foolish perspective on this season.

Knowing how to win close, high-level games is a learned skill. Outcomes of games aren't coincidental in most cases. In basketball, there are hundreds of elements to the game and how it's played to be in position to win a game. Among those elements are something as simple as execution of basic fundamentals to as complex as a read-and-react action based on how secondary defender is guarding. The teams that do a combo of all those things better and more consistently, and at the right times, win.

The primary outrage of the Jazz consumers should lie squarely on Greg Miller who's made the choice to penny-pinch with a coach while the roster restructured from the D-Will/Booz era. Corbin may be a great guy, and perhaps knows more about basketball than any of us could ever dream of. But guess what? He can't ****ing teach it. Obviously, our roster this season featured plenty of young guys with bright futures. They had the same breakdowns defensively tonight against the Lakers (specifically guarding the pick-and-roll) that they did the first game of the preseason - and basically every game in between.

Favors and Kanter react to double teams as poorly as they have since they've come to the Jazz under Corbin's tutelage.

Burke showed his moxy as a 'killer' during the Big Dance, and several times this season. Burks was THE breakout player of the season for us, and the most positive storyline for us. He was a complete monster in the 2nd half of the season, and looks to be a star in the making. I thought I had seen enough to gather what a 'best-case scenario' would be for him last season, but he surpassed that for sure this year. His relentlessness attacking the cup and ability to get buckets in the lane, and trips to the FT line, is rare and will be an awesome piece for us.

Hayward has a really, really nice all-around game. He's had plenty of time to display a killer, alpha-dog mentality but hasn't even come close, and if he stays he'll be complementary as opposed to the star as many of us had once envisioned.

Those five NEEDED to learn to what it takes to win games in the league this year.

The window of opportunity is short, and we have talent to be a real contender down the road. If we had a capable coach the last few years grooming these pups, there's no way we finish as crappy as we do this year.

The most concerning part for me is that there's no way any of the players were 'tanking', and I'm 99.9% sure the coaching staff wasn't prepping for games or making subs with the conscious hope that it leads to a loss. To do that as a player would be admitting they aren't good enough to be real, so lets suck to try and get a good lotto pick and someone who may be good.

There's no guarantee (sans a guy every few years) that a top 3 pick rookie will be a franchise-changing, immediate impact player. To be honest, none of the current guys in the draft will be the reason a team becomes a bona fide playoff team in the next two years. So to go through a season where our great nucleus of five (TB, AB, GH, DF, EK) can't gain the invaluable experience of winning close games, and/or blowing teams out - and knowing how/why they did so - for the chance to take a kid who may or may not pan out down the line is awful. To want that is a joke, and displays cluelessness.

Aaron Gordon is the most NBA ready of all these guys because he'll be able to contribute at a relatively high level defensively and I haven't seen him projected to go top 3 anywhere. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

It is imperative the Jazz find a coach who not only is capable with the dry-erase board, but understands teaching the game and developing talent and cohesion on the court.

We've got 5 MFs who are really good in the talent dept for their respective positions, but need to be coached up at an NBA level in the worst way.

Jazz fans should've been rallying to get these 5 to get some confidence playing for and with each other by getting dubbs this year. There were plenty available.

No one who has a casual-fan's basketball mind can say the Lakers roster is more talented, or better, than the Jazz tonight. What was the difference then?

You should have warned us that your post was going to be long. I hot trapped as soon as I clicked on the discussion.

Sent from the JazzFanz app
 
I think you are overrating our roster. Very few young talented teams win consistently in the NBA. The Jazz have to learn to play as a team in the NBA. Have Jazz fans forgotten that Stockton and Malone didn't get to the finals until the end of their careers. There are a lot of good team especially in the West so talent is everywhere. Yes a great coach might have squeezed a few more victories out of this team but both the Spurs and OKC had to learn to win games especially OKC.

I think another coach could work wonders on this roster. With the right system and the right bench leader, there is even a fourth seed in this roster.
 
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Teams can build through the draft, FA and trades. Who's to say DL won't trade our two picks this year for a proven vet? I certainly wouldn't be opposed if the deal was right.

The entire crux of everything I've posted in this thread is that rebuilding/restructuring was inevitable. However, there's a line between letting a predominantly young, talented team that won't make the playoffs take their lumps through the course of a season and a full-fledged dumpster fire.

One thing you may have learned at a DII school is some English and a nice little vocab. One thing you most certainly didn't learn is a ****ing thing about basketball or the logic behind building a team. Surely your math skills suffered greatly as you worked tirelessly at perfecting your sentence structure. Too bad for you basketball is a game that revolves completely around numbers and mathematics which is why as pretty as your sentences look, they lack any semblance of logic. None.
 
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