Pres. Of Baskettball Operations Says Interesting Things About Draft, Tomic, and Neto...

[Deleted member 848]

That's fair enough. As a matter of fact, I would not be opposed to that idea if we didn't have Gobert and if I could believe that Tomic would be OK with modest playing time. But I'm pretty high on Gobert and want this year to be a better rebuilding year that the youngs get full chances than the previous pointless seasons.

Trade Kanter and picks for a PG(pick or a current one), draft a PF(ie Vonleh), make sure that Gobert will have his minutes and chance to develope and improve and bring Tomic over to be the 2nd/3rd big. Now that's a legit plan. Very good FC with Favors/Tomic/Vonleh/Gobert. You have length and defense in Gobert and Favors, stretching the offense with Vonleh and finesse play with Tomic. So do it in a fashion.

But just don't ruin the front court with purposeless crowd and don't pretend that Tomic is better than Kanter without knowing anything about his game.

Spectacular post.

 

[green]

I dont think there are many who think he will be a star.
I think the majority feel the way i do..... which that i dont pretend to know how good he will be but im not ready to call him garbage and give up on him since he is a very inexperienced 21 year old who has yet to get major minutes on a team trying to win with a quality coach.

The jazz dont get 3rd overall picks every year so forgive me for not giving up on kanter before his rookie contract is even up.

Some people want to call kanter garbage and turn around and say that jabari is a sure thing all star player.

I will wait to judge kanter for at least one more year.

Look at how pathetic our picks have been:

Burke - 9th pick
Hayward - 9th pick
Favors - 3rd pick
Kanter - 3rd pick.

Has any team had four top ten picks in a four year span and not have ONE even be in the All-Star discussion? That is what I'd be interested to hear. Then I hear people say that they don't want to give up on one-two of these guys so we can draft Gordon?

Wow. That just sucks. Sorry.

At least Cleveland drafted an All-Star in all of their ineptitude. We can't even do that.

But, but, NEXT year! They will break out once Deron is gone...Al is gone...Millsap is gone...Corbin is gone....

It's always everyone's fault but the player's, right?

 

[green]

Kanter is still under his rookie contract next year. No need to worry about boozer money yet

So, you keep Kanter, let him play out his rookie contract, and now he is a young big averaging 15 and 8. You'd be lucky to keep him for Boozer money. The question is, with all the bitching that went on when Boozer was here, then Al, and we all want to keep Kanter? When we ran two better players out of town for NOTHING?

Why not move Kanter now, when he is worth something, then waiting for next year when you will have to either, let him walk for nothing, or overpay him to keep him?

The guy played 28 minutes a night this last year. What did he do that made you feel that he is the future?

He is a poor, poor man's Al, not even in the stratosphere of Boozer, and yet we want to give him the same money as those two?

I just don't get it. Not one bit.

Look at Kanter's numbers vs Boozer's their third years:

12 pts, 7 rebs, 49% fg, 73% ft
18 pts, 9 rebs, 52% fg, 70% ft

Kanter isn't as good. He won't be as good as Boozer. Ever. Yet, we won't part with him to get a top 3 pick? Especially when he won't be as good as Boozer, and we all couldn't wait for Boozer to leave? Crazy.

But, but, but, but...

No thanks.

 

[Doublea]

Look at how pathetic our picks have been:

Burke - 9th pick
Hayward - 9th pick
Favors - 3rd pick
Kanter - 3rd pick.

Has any team had four top ten picks in a four year span and not have ONE even be in the All-Star discussion? That is what I'd be interested to hear. Then I hear people say that they don't want to give up on one-two of these guys so we can draft Gordon?

Wow. That just sucks. Sorry.

At least Cleveland drafted an All-Star in all of their ineptitude. We can't even do that.

But, but, NEXT year! They will break out once Deron is gone...Al is gone...Millsap is gone...Corbin is gone....

It's always everyone's fault but the player's, right?

Those picks could have been a lot worse.

 

[green]

Those picks could have been a lot worse.

They could have been a lot better as well.

Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Nikola Mirotic, Isaiah Thomas, MCW, Steven Adams, Giannis Anteokounnmpo...

Ask yourself this:

Would if you were the GM of the OTHER team (not the Jazz), would you move any of these players for one of the Jazz? Straight up?

Favors is probably the only player that is wanted, and you could probably only get Thomas or Adams for him.

Hayward might get you Isaiah Thomas, maybe Adams.

Burke doesn't get you anyone.

Kanter might get you Adams.

Hell, out of our top 10 picks, Burks might be our most valuable and he was taken 12. Or Favors, and we didn't draft him (which might be a good thing. Who would we have taken? Monroe? The same guy Detroit is looking at letting walk for nothing? Yikes.)

Point is, with all of my ranting, is if Cleveland/Philly/Milwaukee calls and says we'll give you our pick but we want #5, Kanter and Burks, you do it in a heartbeat. And you know you just screwed that team over.

 

[green]

Our biggest mistakes were 2010 and 2011. Who wouldn't trade Kanter, Hayward, and Burks for Thompson, Leonard and George.

Wow.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Look at how pathetic our picks have been:

Burke - 9th pick
Hayward - 9th pick
Favors - 3rd pick
Kanter - 3rd pick.

Has any team had four top ten picks in a four year span and not have ONE even be in the All-Star discussion? That is what I'd be interested to hear. Then I hear people say that they don't want to give up on one-two of these guys so we can draft Gordon?

Wow. That just sucks. Sorry.

At least Cleveland drafted an All-Star in all of their ineptitude. We can't even do that.

But, but, NEXT year! They will break out once Deron is gone...Al is gone...Millsap is gone...Corbin is gone....

It's always everyone's fault but the player's, right?

Timberpups went Oj mayo, johnny flyn, wes johnson and derrick williams 4 years in a row. The only saving grace is they traded oj for love, they also drafted rubio which could go either way.

 

[green]

Timberpups went Oj mayo, johnny flyn, wes johnson and derrick williams 4 years in a row. The only saving grace is they traded oj for love, they also drafted rubio which could go either way.

Good point. The T-Wolves are so bad, I actually forgot about them. Ha ha.

 

[Tarkanian]

So, you keep Kanter, let him play out his rookie contract, and now he is a young big averaging 15 and 8. You'd be lucky to keep him for Boozer money. The question is, with all the bitching that went on when Boozer was here, then Al, and we all want to keep Kanter? When we ran two better players out of town for NOTHING?

Why not move Kanter now, when he is worth something, then waiting for next year when you will have to either, let him walk for nothing, or overpay him to keep him?

The guy played 28 minutes a night this last year. What did he do that made you feel that he is the future?

He is a poor, poor man's Al, not even in the stratosphere of Boozer, and yet we want to give him the same money as those two?

I just don't get it. Not one bit.

Look at Kanter's numbers vs Boozer's their third years:

12 pts, 7 rebs, 49% fg, 73% ft
18 pts, 9 rebs, 52% fg, 70% ft

Kanter isn't as good. He won't be as good as Boozer. Ever. Yet, we won't part with him to get a top 3 pick? Especially when he won't be as good as Boozer, and we all couldn't wait for Boozer to leave? Crazy.

But, but, but, but...

No thanks.

lol
You have proven that they are actually very similar players, WHEN/IF you add that Boozer played 34.7mpg whereas Kanter did have an average of 26.7.
Per 36 for example, they are not looking like two worlds apart, au contraire Kanter has 1 more rebound and only two points shy.
Remember as well that Boozer had 13.6 FGA, whereas Kanter had 10.7.

Per 36 (in their 3rd seasons):
Boozer: 18.5 /9.3
Kanter: 16.6/10.1

Stratosphere oh la lala

 

[Darkwing Duck]

lol
You have proven that they are actually very similar players, WHEN/IF you add that Boozer played 34.7mpg whereas Kanter did have an average of 26.7.
Per 36 for example, they are not looking like two worlds apart, au contraire Kanter has 1 more rebound and only two points shy.
Remember as well that Boozer had 13.6 FGA, whereas Kanter had 10.7.

Per 36 (in their 3rd seasons):
Boozer: 18.5 /9.3
Kanter: 16.6/10.1

Stratosphere oh la lala

What was their efficiency?

 

[Tarkanian]

What was their efficiency?

I'll give you that.

DD, Boozer is the better player here, well at least that is my opinion.
That said, Kanter is not a scrub and will never be.

When you talk about efficiency, please bear in mind that Boozer played in a Sloan team.
What was the catchword for Jazz back then?
Remember? EXECUTION. Remember all those highpost shots he made constantly and on a very high rate?
It will still be apples and oranges until you give similar (not same) chances and environment to Kanter, who has the range Boozer has and even more beyond that.

Kanter is a good player, great rebounder.
Make no mistake about it.
Character-wise he needs some maturity and he is only 21-22 years old.

add on: Boozer had 14.1 FGA per 36
Kanter 14.4 FGA per 36

 

[green]

What was their efficiency?

Kanter vs Boozer

PER: 15.6 vs 19.2
TS%: 52 vs 56
eFG: 49 vs 52
FTr: .239 vs .387
TRB%: 16.1 vs 16
USG%: 23.3 vs 24.6
ORtg: 102 vs 108
DRtg: 112 vs 108
OWS: 1.3 vs 2.7
DWS: 0.9 vs 1.4
WS: 2.2 vs 4.1
WS/48: 0.5 vs .111

 

[green]

I'll give you that.

DD, Boozer is the better player here, well at least that is my opinion.
That said, Kanter is not a scrub and will never be.

When you talk about efficiency, please bear in mind that Boozer played in a Sloan team.
What was the catchword for Jazz back then?
Remember? EXECUTION. Remember all those highpost shots he made constantly and on a very high rate?
It will still be apples and oranges until you give similar (not same) chances and environment to Kanter, who has the range Boozer has and even more beyond that.

Kanter is a good player, great rebounder.
Make no mistake about it.
Character-wise he needs some maturity and but he is 21-22 years old.

I know I'm being negative, and probably overly so, but when do the excuses stop for the players? When is it the player's fault and not someone else's? That is what is starting to grate on me.

What if Kanter will never get the same environment? Sloan is a once in a lifetime coach. Boozer's numbers have stayed pretty consistent since he left, and he didn't get the same execution that he received at Utah.

I'm ok with trading Kanter and the hopes that he magically gets it for a top 3 pick. Both Hayward and Favors were supposed to break out this year with Al and Paul gone. Remember how much better our offense and defense were supposed to be? Yeah, didn't happen.

I'm not holding my breath on Kanter either. I bet next year looks a lot more like this year.

 

[Tarkanian]

It is not an excuse Green bro.
I criticized Kanter for some of his mistakes in the past, that NT thing etc..
But just trying to give him the credit when due.
I still believe he has All-Star material, too lemme add.
Not that he will be one in foreseeable future, but 'tis the potential I am talking about.

He is in the same stratosphere with Boozer (who played 51 games in his 3rd year BTW) but just not that good, yet!

 

[Doublea]

I know I'm being negative, and probably overly so, but when do the excuses stop for the players? When is it the player's fault and not someone else's? That is what is starting to grate on me.

What if Kanter will never get the same environment? Sloan is a once in a lifetime coach. Boozer's numbers have stayed pretty consistent since he left, and he didn't get the same execution that he received at Utah.

I'm ok with trading Kanter and the hopes that he magically gets it for a top 3 pick. Both Hayward and Favors were supposed to break out this year with Al and Paul gone. Remember how much better our offense and defense were supposed to be? Yeah, didn't happen.

I'm not holding my breath on Kanter either. I bet next year looks a lot more like this year.

We also had no bench (in a sense) and played scrubs like JLIII, Harris, Tinsley, etc for a while.

 

[Doublea]

I just feel like there are too many variables to write players off this easily. such as age, coaching, chemistry, etc. and I'd still like the players on the Jazz to keep improving.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.

 

[addictionary]

I wouldn't be surprised if Enes gets traded with the 5th for a higher ground, 2 levels higher the least.

 

[Tarkanian]

Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.

I was stunned by this poor showing as well, DD.
I am referring to his many-times displayed rebounding prowess.
He was the best rebounder on European continent on cadets level, easily.
If I am not mistaken he averaged 18 rpg in an int'l tournament, against the creme-de-la-creme of Euro bball.
I am still counting on his rebounding talents, and I have substantial evidence to back it up!
If he lets down that's his loss.
Garbage is his key to success.
He better get his act together and instead of throwing mikes onto the court, should throw himself onto it to collect the loose balls.
Instead, he is walking around like a primadonna finesse player, which he may be one day.
But he has an already NBA-ready talent in garbage ball, Juwan Howard made a living due his knack for the loose basketballs.

in toto, Enes has to stop being the 2nd coming of Al Jefferson and show some work-ethic.
RJefferson is right about warning him, I sincerely believe.
That said, "how" he did that is wrong, methinks.
Leadership is displayed on the court and in the locker room.
RJ should have known that better.

add on: @ addictionary
I am of the opion that Enes is not an untouchable asset in trades. For the right price, he can be sent away. If it will bring Jazz a player like Japari then so be it. send Hayward too while you are at it or Burke or Favors.

 

[ema]

Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.

He hasn't proven but he has shown great signs for it. Enes can always be in top 20 at rebounds in the NBA and his ceiling is up to the top 5.

He was in top ten in his rookie year and top 25 in his second year. The most plausible reason for his drop in his third year is obviously his injury. He was always an elite rebounder all his career long including his rookie year in the NBA. So I believe that there is no reason for him to get it back again.