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Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.
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I was stunned by this poor showing as well, DD.
I am referring to his many-times displayed rebounding prowess.
He was the best rebounder on European continent on cadets level, easily.
If I am not mistaken he averaged 18 rpg in an int'l tournament, against the creme-de-la-creme of Euro bball.
I am still counting on his rebounding talents, and I have substantial evidence to back it up!
If he lets down that's his loss.
Garbage is his key to success.
He better get his act together and instead of throwing mikes onto the court, should throw himself onto it to collect the loose balls.
Instead, he is walking around like a primadonna finesse player, which he may be one day.
But he has an already NBA-ready talent in garbage ball, Juwan Howard made a living due his knack for the loose basketballs.

in toto, Enes has to stop being the 2nd coming of Al Jefferson and show some work-ethic.
RJefferson is right about warning him, I sincerely believe.
That said, "how" he did that is wrong, methinks.
Leadership is displayed on the court and in the locker room.
RJ should have known that better.

add on: @ addictionary
I am of the opion that Enes is not an untouchable asset in trades. For the right price, he can be sent away. If it will bring Jazz a player like Japari then so be it. send Hayward too while you are at it or Burke or Favors.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Kanter sure hasn't shown he's a great rebounder.

He's good, but when he's 50th in the league in rebound rate, then he's not great. 50th on a team that that was 14th and 16th in rebound rate on the offensive and defensive end.
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He hasn't proven but he has shown great signs for it. Enes can always be in top 20 at rebounds in the NBA and his ceiling is up to the top 5.

He was in top ten in his rookie year and top 25 in his second year. The most plausible reason for his drop in his third year is obviously his injury. He was always an elite rebounder all his career long including his rookie year in the NBA. So I believe that there is no reason for him to get it back again.
 
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green said:
They could have been a lot better as well.

Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, Nikola Mirotic, Isaiah Thomas, MCW, Steven Adams, Giannis Anteokounnmpo...
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How many all stars in that group?
One?

Ya we really screwed up
 
GVC said:
I think that's his point. Neither Gordo nor Favs made a huge jump from Year 3 to Year 4. For the most part, we already knew what we had in them after Year 3.
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Expectations for Hayward were, in my opinion, out of synch with what was the most likely outcome. Locke did an analysis of what happened to players who transitioned from a 2nd or 3rd option to a 1st option and he found that with only one exception (Danny Granger), scoring efficiency significantly dropped. Expecting Hayward's efficiency to improve or even remain constant given the circumstances was probably not reasonable, and yet he is criticized ad nauseum for not achieving it.
 
green said:
I know I'm being negative, and probably overly so, but when do the excuses stop for the players? When is it the player's fault and not someone else's? That is what is starting to grate on me.

What if Kanter will never get the same environment? Sloan is a once in a lifetime coach. Boozer's numbers have stayed pretty consistent since he left, and he didn't get the same execution that he received at Utah.

I'm ok with trading Kanter and the hopes that he magically gets it for a top 3 pick. Both Hayward and Favors were supposed to break out this year with Al and Paul gone. Remember how much better our offense and defense were supposed to be? Yeah, didn't happen.

I'm not holding my breath on Kanter either. I bet next year looks a lot more like this year.
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I don't know how old Boozer was when he came to the Jazz, but he had a lot more playing time than Kanter has had. I just think you are being impatient with young players. Just because they get drafted high doesn't mean they are ready to be all-stars. Yes, the Core5 may or may not work out but at this point it is way too early to throw in the towel.

People look at Leonard or George and say we should have taken them and they are so much further ahead then our picks. Well both guys are on better teams with better players and coaches than our young guys have had. Yes I am making excuses and yes the players need to improve and show better improvement but I am willing to wait a couple of years to see if they make the progression I think they will. It was only last year that the roster was stripped in order to have the young guys play.

They didn't even play much together so how can you evaluate them as bust or just average players. Of course I agree that Favors and Hayward are on the "hot"seat more than Kanter and Burks so they need to step it up this year or I will be on the negative bandwagon with you. I try to give rookies a pass until they get off their rookie contract.

When you get the big money you better start producing or my patience wears thin. I have my doubts with Favors and Hayward that they don't have the "it" factor but this year is when they are officially vets so I will judge them after this year. Kanter, Burks and Trey still are on their rookie contracts so I will be patient unless they obviously stop trying to get better which hasn't been the case. For now they deserve my patience, even though I have a few doubts about their games.
 
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People freaking out about our players taking dips in efficiency last year are weird. Did you really expect all of them to just waltz into the starting lineup at the sametime and not have any hiccups? The only one of the C4 who didn't take major hits to efficiency was Alec, and guess what, he only started 12 games.kanter started 37 this year, and only 2 the prior season.

Hayward couldn't shoot at a decent % anymore, and he had been in the starting lineup before.

Favors' Trb% went from 17.9 to 16.7. His blk% went from 5.7 to 3.8, but his ast% went from 6.8 to 7.3 %, and his TOV% went from 15.9 to 12.9%

Kanter's Trb% went from 16.5 to 16.1. His blk % went from 2.3 to 1.5, but his ast% went from 5.0 to 6.4%, and his TOV% went from 19 to 13.3.

Point is, it is extremely hard to be an efficient player while transferring to a new role at the same time almost everyone else on your team is. Basketball is a team game. If your team is not efficient, how can you be?

Instead of bemoaning our players' slight drops in certain advanced stats, I think it is more appropriate to look at how they finished the year, and how on a whole what may be seen as regression" or "plateauing" is actually neither, and was instead progression and development because those stats cane against first tier competition, as opposed to second and third tier.

Give our team some time. As of now, all members of the core4 are above average players in the league per PER. That should be something to celebrate. Let them grow into their new roles and with eachother. rome wasn't built in a day.

The most heartening thing to me is both Favors and Kanter cut down significantly on TOV's, and got a little better at passing. This is GREAT news!

All in all, for as little basketball that Kanter has actually played, he is proving to be an exceptional talent.
 
Sexual Favors said:
Give our team some time. As of now, all members of the core4 are above average players in the league per PER.
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ew. You can shoot like **** and increase your PER by taking more shots. Someone on the team has to collect rebounds and assists. PER is terrible, especially when judging high usage players on bad teams.

And fwiw, I'm not looking at stats alone. I'm trying to evaluate the players based on skills, progress, potential roles they could fill on a good team.

Gordo isn't an offensive hub OR a perimeter stopper.

Favs has yet to show that he's a great post defender, but has shown an ability to protect the rim and defend the pick and roll well. He's not an on-ball scorer, and his mid-range game is still suspect. As such, he'll probably always be a bit of an offensive liability. He needs to be a bit nastier defensively.

Kanter has decent touch and footwork. Not convinced his bully ball or passing will ever be good enough that you can run the offense through him. Should be able to provide some spacing. He seems completely disinterested on defense, with his hands at his side when defending in space.

Burks looks likes he can be an adequate 6th man. His improved spot-up shooting this season also makes it possible for him to be effective off-ball (this was absolutely HUGE for his development). Lack of strength and a propensity to ball watch make him a liability on defense.


This team still needs a couple players you can run the offense through, a perimeter stopper or two, and a bit more shooting. I don't see the above players providing that. I'd move Gordo and Kanter if it brought back one or two players who could fill key roles.
 
GVC said:
ew. You can shoot like **** and increase your PER by taking more shots. Someone on the team has to collect rebounds and assists. PER is terrible, especially when judging high usage players on bad teams.
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True, but the rest of my argument stands.
 
@DJJazzyJody
Any extra pressure to draft a star/go-to guy this year? VP Walt Perrin: "There could be some of those types of players on our team already."
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I'm also an optimist. I see Kanter as truly having that potential given his age and how little time he's been playing team basketball/coached. Great body, hands, feet, hunger, and potential.
 
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