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Where did Paul Millsap go?

GVC said:
With Sap on the court, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 102 points total.

With Francisco on the court, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 30 points total.

With Fes on the court, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 61 points total.

With Big Al on the court, the Jazz have outscored their opponents by 10 points total.

The Jazz have not been good with Big Al on the court.
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What the heck are you talking about? You make no sense.
 
Marty McFly said:
Dude. You're being ridiculous. First you said the Jazz are "bad" with Jefferson on the floor. My argument? He plays lots of minutes, and we've been a really good team this year. If we were a "bad" team with him on the floor we wouldn't be tailing the West's elite. If you really believe your +/- stats, I'm guessing you'd be fine with playing Fesenko or Elson 40 minutes a game in Jefferson's spot?

Additionally, Jazz were almost always a better team with Bozzer off the floor, yet you still sing his praises whenever you can and probably believe we were better with him.

Par for the course.
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Agreed, Good to see some people actually have brains. :)
 
Marty McFly said:
Dude. You're being ridiculous. First you said the Jazz are "bad" with Jefferson on the floor. My argument? He plays lots of minutes, and we've been a really good team this year. If we were a "bad" team with him on the floor we wouldn't be tailing the West's elite. If you really believe your +/- stats, I'm guessing you'd be fine with playing Fesenko or Elson 40 minutes a game in Jefferson's spot?
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The Jazz have only been really good this year when Big Al isn't on the court. This is undeniably true. Acknowledging this does not necessarily imply that the Jazz would be even better with Francisco and Fes getting 30 minutes per game.

Matchups matter. Big Al has been outplayed by opposing starting 5s, and it's highly likely that Fes and Francisco would be too if given the same minutes as Big Al.

It's worth posting how terrible Big Al has been in Jazz losses:

34.1 mpg
.409 fg
13.6 ppg
8.2 rpg
0.9 bpg

Dude takes games off ALL THE TIME. That's not going to do if he wants to be an essential part of a winning basketball team.
 
DukeJazz said:
Can you look up stats before you post and not just guess? Big al is avergaing almost 2 blocks a game. 1.8. That is pretty good for a center. Do you not watch the jazz play?Also the per 48 doesn't matter as much as what they actually play a night. Funny how people try to prove a player they hate that they are worse then another by choosing rediculous stats. Major facepalm.
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Way over your head. Go ahead and scale those numbers for however many minutes you want. They'll still show that Paul outplays opposing 4s and Big Al gets killed by opposing 5s.
 
GVC said:
The Jazz have only been really good this year when Big Al isn't on the court. This is undeniably true. Acknowledging this does not necessarily imply that the Jazz would be even better with Francisco and Fes getting 30 minutes per game.

Matchups matter. Big Al has been outplayed by opposing starting 5s, and it's highly likely that Fes and Francisco would be too if given the same minutes as Big Al.

It's worth posting how terrible Big Al has been in Jazz losses:

34.1 mpg
.409 fg
13.6 ppg
8.2 rpg
0.9 bpg

Dude takes games off ALL THE TIME. That's not going to do if he wants to be an essential part of a winning basketball team.
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Haha. Way to dodge everything that I said. By the way, Williams has a net on/off court this season too. Much worse than Earl Watson. What an idiot Sloan is for playing him so much.
 
The difference is that - in reality - Fesenko could not play 30 mpg without fouling out and Elson couldn't handle 30 mpg over the course of a season.

Granted, I think Al's "he's figuring out the offense" grace period is closing pretty quickly, but compared to the other options we have at the 5, he's what we have.
 
Marty McFly said:
Additionally, Jazz were almost always a better team with Bozzer off the floor, yet you still sing his praises whenever you can and probably believe we were better with him.
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When was this? You must be confusing me with someone else. I'm happy Boozer is gone.
 
GVC said:
Did you even read my post? I answered everything you said.
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Absolutely. I understand that you're judging players based on on/off court stats instead of wins and losses. As I edited above, Deron and AK also have net negative on/off court numbers. Yet we're winning games.
 
Marty McFly said:
Absolutely. I understand that you're judging players based on on/off court stats instead of wins and losses.
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Uh, wrong.

My post about Millsap v. his comp and Big Al. v. his comp, including my assertion that Paul is a better team player, had nothing to do with +/-.

I mentioned/used on court/off court +/- not once in my previous posts. I posted that Paul has the 6th best adjusted +/- in the NBA (Deron also does quite well in this statistic), and I posted aggregate on court +/- numbers for the Jazz's 4 main bigs this season.

Please leave. You're only embarrassing yourself.
 
DukeJazz said:
1 tall guy. 6 ft 9 is the average height for power forwards and paul is 6 ft 8 and a half so hes basically average. Big al is way mroe underssized at center than millsap is at power forward.
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Not only smoking but also drinking loads of kool-aid. I have stood next to Sap, Booz, AK and Memo. Memo and AK were obviously taller than Booz - who is undersized himself and admitted he was 6'7" without shoes. Booz is taller than Sap. My guess is that Miles is close to as tall if not taller than Paul. Everyone on the planet knows Sap is undersized for an NBA PF including him and the Jazz coaches. And it does impact his game. Love his hustle but it hurts his game. Just for grins a quote below on his size. This is very old news but evidently needs repeating.

NBA Scouting Reports: Filling in the Blanks- Power Forwards (Part 1)
August 25, 2009
Overview Steadily improving young big man who had a breakout season in 08-09, establishing himself as a legit cornerstone of the Utah Jazz. Extremely undersized for a power forward at just 6-6 without shoes

From DraftExpress.com https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Paul-Millsap-299/#ixzz19SrAjWOL
https://www.draftexpress.com
 
I'd like to add, since we're using stats besides win/loss to decide whether or not players suck, that our BEST 5 man unit this year has been Williams/Miles/AK/Sap/Jefferson, outscoring teams by +66. We're definitely not bad anytime Jefferson steps on the floor. Ridiculous.
 
I want to reiterate the fact that Fesenko (realistically) could not play 30 minutes without getting 6 fouls. Also, Elson could not handle 30 mpg over the course of the whole season.
 
Marty McFly said:
I'd like to add, since we're using stats besides win/loss to decide whether or not players suck, that our BEST 5 man unit this year has been Williams/Miles/AK/Sap/Jefferson, outscoring teams by +66. We're definitely not bad anytime Jefferson steps on the floor. Ridiculous.
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Again, I'm not sure who you're arguing with. I never said the Jazz are bad anytime Jefferson steps on the floor. Reading is fundamental.
 
chemdude1232 said:
I want to reiterate the fact that Fesenko (realistically) could not play 30 minutes without getting 6 fouls. Also, Elson could not handle 30 mpg over the course of the whole season.
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Despite what Marty thinks, I agree 100%.
 
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