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You're the GM this offseason. What do you do?

themanknownassting said:
I don't understand the cap rules in the sport. And I am sure this has been asked before. But if we release Favors, and in doing so lose his bird rights. Do we get the 17 million in cap space? I thought if you lose bird rights that cap space is gone.
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The cap hold is charged against the team holding Bird Rights to the player. Bird Rights allow a team to re-sign their own FAs up to the maximum allowed regardless of their salary cap situation. But a hold is placed against the cap space while the Bird Rights are retained. A team can release that hold, but they will lose that ability to resign the player under those rights and would need to use their available cap space to do so.

It's not really that situation, but similar with Favors. His contract has a Team Option for next year. If the Jazz pick it up, they're simply guaranteeing the deal and numbers. If they decline the option, Favors is released. Utah would need to re-sign him under the available space they would have, but it's more likely Favors simply goes elsewhere. But Utah would gain nearly 17m in space if they don't pick up his option due to the value of his contract against the cap. Utah has until July 6th to make that decision.

Hope that helps.
 
Roy_McAvoy said:
There is absolutely 0% chance the Jazz are giving up Favors & Ingles to be able to be bring on Tobias.
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Ingles is a valuable contributor on a great deal and absolutely a dude that can be the glue guy in a starting lineup that wins a championship. Now that we have Conley we don't need Tobias' creation as much... so his spot up shooting is likely his biggest attribute that we want. We can get that with the cap space that we open up with Favors... going with just Tobias opens up another hole (I know we have Royce, but you need lots of wings).

I love Tobias... I'm not trading Ingles and moving Favs to bring him in.
 
In the Dunc'd on mock offseason... noted smart basketball guy, Kevin Pelton, waived Favors to sign Niko to a 3/55M deal.

Couple things... Knicks immediately picked up Favs... I really think if we wanted to use that space that we could guarantee Favs contract and get at least a couple seconds for it. Pelton even noted he should have scanned the trade market first. Kings, Boston missed out on their center targets and they could easily give up some seconds to fill that hole.

I don't think it will cost that much to get Niko, but noted smart basketball guy did it. If we crammed him into like 14M in space or less it would leave 3Mish to address center. There will be adequate backup centers that are had for the minimum... offering a hair more may put us at the front of that class... we could also make Niko's salary decline over 3 or 4 years to create a little more value should he have some injuries or decline.

Leaves us with room exception of 4.8M to get another wing... Garrett Temple would be a possibility there.

So if we come out with a couple seconds, a starting quality stretch 4, a backup center, and a quality backup guard I think that is better than keeping Favs and adding a bench perimeter guy or a guy like Demarre Carroll (who might be out of our price range anyway).
 
David Stern said:
I don't think the Jazz are contenders right now. I think there's a really good chance that they're contenders with Tobias. I'd rather trade Exum than Ingles in this hypothetical, but that doesn't seem like an option based on reports. There's also a good chance Joe's best days are behind him, although I'm convinced he's Benjamin Button and will be league MVP at 45.
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We are less contenders with Tobias than we are with Favors and Ingles, especially this next year even if Ingles best years are behind him. Maybe in a couple years we are better but we might not have Conley or at least he will be worse.

Tobias might be a better fit than Favors but he is not a better player. So I can see how it improves our team to swap Favors for Harris even if that includes Exum who has not played that much of a role thus far. But when you take away Ingles who is a perfect fit on the team and the source of most of our good chemistry you hurt the team a lot. Plus you hurt our depth a lot. There is no way you replace what Favors does for us and the shooting, passing, and smart play that Ingles gives you with Tobias. Plus our depth is already really low doing another 2 for 1 with starters is not smart.

Plus who here wants a championship without Ingles? Come on.
 
I still contend that the much bigger problem of the Bermuda triangle(Rubio-Favors-Gobert) was the PG-bigs combinations of inability to shoot and create offense rather than the big-big combo inability to shoot. I think Favors+Gobert will be much better with Conley than they were with Rubio. The last time Favors+Gobert had a good shooting PG(Hill), they were +10 net rating for the entire season and this was with Favors severely hampered by injuries throughout the whole season.

I hate that contract for Mirotic the Dunc'd on podcast gave him. They are overrating him IMO.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
In the Dunc'd on mock offseason... noted smart basketball guy, Kevin Pelton, waived Favors to sign Niko to a 3/55M deal.

Couple things... Knicks immediately picked up Favs... I really think if we wanted to use that space that we could guarantee Favs contract and get at least a couple seconds for it. Pelton even noted he should have scanned the trade market first. Kings, Boston missed out on their center targets and they could easily give up some seconds to fill that hole.

I don't think it will cost that much to get Niko, but noted smart basketball guy did it. If we crammed him into like 14M in space or less it would leave 3Mish to address center. There will be adequate backup centers that are had for the minimum... offering a hair more may put us at the front of that class... we could also make Niko's salary decline over 3 or 4 years to create a little more value should he have some injuries or decline.

Leaves us with room exception of 4.8M to get another wing... Garrett Temple would be a possibility there.

So if we come out with a couple seconds, a starting quality stretch 4, a backup center, and a quality backup guard I think that is better than keeping Favs and adding a bench perimeter guy or a guy like Demarre Carroll (who might be out of our price range anyway).
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I think it would be really dumb to just waive Favors only to use his entire salary on Niko. But I agree that if we could get Niko on a good deal and get a solid wing and backup center it could be worth it. Although I think 14 million is an overpay for Niko right now.

But I think at this point if you cant sign and trade Exum and Favors for Tobias or Tobias isnt going to sign for less, then you are better off keeping Favors.

We can use our room exception and whatever else to sign a cheap stretch 4, which there are a bunch of and a older vet wing. You can also pick up some vet min players that there will be a slew of to fill in the roster. Then you see how Favors fits with Conley, you see if Exum is healthy and has figured things out. Both of their trade values could go way up. Then you keep them if you love the fit or trade them if an all-star level player suddenly becomes available. Worse case their value stays the same or even slightly worse and you can trade them for vets on longer contracts. Favors expiring will be enticing to multiple teams like Miami and others trying to clear space for next off season. Its more likely that Favors starts hitting the 3 at a decent rate this year than Niko starts playing good defense. He just needs to go 2 more steps out from his reliable spots. Other players have picked it up at this point and he has been working hard at it.
 
Something people don't seem to realize is that by losing Favors we actually lose 2 rotational players, not 1. We lose a solid PF and an amazing center. He plays 2 distinct roles for this team and we will have to replace his minutes for both roles.
 
stitches said:
Something people don't seem to realize is that by losing Favors we actually lose 2 rotational players, not 1. We lose a solid PF and an amazing center. He plays 2 distinct roles for this team and we will have to replace his minutes for both roles.
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I agree. I just don't see the value of dumping Favors in order to sign Mirotic. If we got Mirotic for $10 and Jamychal Green for $7, maybe we got something there since we get two options at PF while Green can play a stretch center for us in small lineups.
 
stitches said:
Something people don't seem to realize is that by losing Favors we actually lose 2 rotational players, not 1. We lose a solid PF and an amazing center. He plays 2 distinct roles for this team and we will have to replace his minutes for both roles.
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Yes and no... here is the deal though... if he gets hurt you also miss two rotational spots... getting two players at or around the same money Favs makes spreads injury risk over two players. He is amazing as a backup center... the issue? It is the most replaceable position in the NBA and theoretically can use a minimum contract or close to it to do so. Like I think we could get Kyle O Quin on a minimum deal and he'd do fine there.

Your earlier point about the non-shooting trio may be more valid and it is a reason I'd consider staying the course if no value comes along. But I think we could get a value starter at PF and get the same result, but get a long term piece... since Favs can and should walk next offseason.

It's a little bit of a dance, but if we can't get Niko on a value deal I think we walk.... right or wrong. I think it would be at 10-14M and not 17M... when Niko was rolling in NO I though he'd get $20M but his value took a few hits... some concerning more than others.
 
David Stern said:
If the Jazz are going to win a championship they're going to have to take some risks. Obviously everyone loves Joe, but Royce is waiting in the wings and Tobias makes the Jazz significantly better.
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This is not something you even remotely approach doing without knowing you can actually snag a max player. That’s the only scenario you do that.

At some point, you should like your team because it’s something other than a logo or your hometown team. Joe is absolutely critical both to how well this team plays and it’s culture.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yes and no... here is the deal though... if he gets hurt you also miss two rotational spots... getting two players at or around the same money Favs makes spreads injury risk over two players. He is amazing as a backup center... the issue? It is the most replaceable position in the NBA and theoretically can use a minimum contract or close to it to do so. Like I think we could get Kyle O Quin on a minimum deal and he'd do fine there.

Your earlier point about the non-shooting trio may be more valid and it is a reason I'd consider staying the course if no value comes along. But I think we could get a value starter at PF and get the same result, but get a long term piece... since Favs can and should walk next offseason. His PF minutes are much more easily replaceable(because of bad fit) than his center minutes.

It's a little bit of a dance, but if we can't get Niko on a value deal I think we walk.... right or wrong. I think it would be at 10-14M and not 17M... when Niko was rolling in NO I though he'd get $20M but his value took a few hits... some concerning more than others.
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I mean, backup center is replaceable position for sure... for most teams. Back up center at the level Favors is playing is NOT replaceable. People don't seem to grasp just how good Favors played at center last year. Per 36 minutes at center(minutes without Rudy on the floor) he averaged something like 22/14/2 with 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals at 67% TS... oh and BTW... the team defense GOT BETTER with him on the floor than it was with Rudy. Yeah. This is not a thing most teams can do - have their 2-times DPOY sit on the bench for a break and have their defense IMPROVE... Favors is around top 10-12 center in the league right now when healthy. He just happens to play on the same team with a top 5 center. This is not easily replaceable. His PF minutes are much more easily replaceable(because of bad fit with Gobert) than his center minutes.
 
I think we should consider starting the following 5:
PG Conley
SG Mitchell
SF O'Neale
PF Favors
C Gobert

I trust Joe's ability to be that 2nd unit leader and help Exum run the offense. If Gobert rests a good bit while Favors and Joe play together, that allows them more time for their pick and roll success while Niang is spotting up.

I think Ingles could be one of the leaders for 6th man of the year.
 
LoPo said:
I think we should consider starting the following 5:
PG Conley
SG Mitchell
SF O'Neale
PF Favors
C Gobert

I trust Joe's ability to be that 2nd unit leader and help Exum run the offense. If Gobert rests a good bit while Favors and Joe play together, that allows them more time for their pick and roll success while Niang is spotting up.

I think Ingles could be one of the leaders for 6th man of the year.
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Ingles can still start and lead the second unit. You just sub him out early. You gotta make perfect use of his secondary ball-handling and spot up shooting. Take Fave and him out at 6 minute mark and let them PnR second units to death.
 
LoPo said:
I think we should consider starting the following 5:
PG Conley
SG Mitchell
SF O'Neale
PF Favors
C Gobert

I trust Joe's ability to be that 2nd unit leader and help Exum run the offense. If Gobert rests a good bit while Favors and Joe play together, that allows them more time for their pick and roll success while Niang is spotting up.

I think Ingles could be one of the leaders for 6th man of the year.
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Eh, I agree with the timing but I would still start Ingles and Favors. Then pull them out after 5 minutes and bring in your backup PF and Royce. Then let Favors and Ingles play with the Bench unit some.

One issue is that Conley is not good at the lob pass though. Hopefully he picks it up quick but he hasnt done it much. Conley might be much better running the pick and roll with Favors as well. Whereas Ingles and Mitchell can run it with Gobert well.
 
Hekate said:
Ingles can still start and lead the second unit. You just sub him out early. You gotta make perfect use of his secondary ball-handling and spot up shooting. Take Fave and him out at 6 minute mark and let them PnR second units to death.
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Yeah, Favors and Ingles have great chemistry in the PnR. If we are keeping Favors we should try to maximize the minutes Ingles and Favors play together with the second unit.
 
Hekate said:
Ingles can still start and lead the second unit. You just sub him out early. You gotta make perfect use of his secondary ball-handling and spot up shooting. Take Fave and him out at 6 minute mark and let them PnR second units to death.
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That could work too. I just think Ingles will be necessary in that 2nd unit than in the first since we have Conley, Mitchell and Gobert orchestrating most of everything.
 
NUMBERICA said:
This is not something you even remotely approach doing without knowing you can actually snag a max player. That’s the only scenario you do that.

At some point, you should like your team because it’s something other than a logo or your hometown team. Joe is absolutely critical both to how well this team plays and it’s culture.
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I agree with this. I love Ingles and would hate to see him go, and I think that Tobias is the only player I'd trade him for in this free agent class. My personal opinion is that Tobias > Favors+Ingles in terms of potentially winning a championship, although it seems like 90% of this board disagrees with that. I don't think Joe is actually going to get traded to sign Tobias though.
 
stitches said:
I mean, backup center is replaceable position for sure... for most teams. Back up center at the level Favors is playing is NOT replaceable. People don't seem to grasp just how good Favors played at center last year. Per 36 minutes at center(minutes without Rudy on the floor) he averaged something like 22/14/2 with 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals at 67% TS... oh and BTW... the team defense GOT BETTER with him on the floor than it was with Rudy. Yeah. This is not a thing most teams can do - have their 2-times DPOY sit on the bench for a break and have their defense IMPROVE... Favors is around top 10-12 center in the league right now when healthy. He just happens to play on the same team with a top 5 center. This is not easily replaceable. His PF minutes are much more easily replaceable(because of bad fit with Gobert) than his center minutes.
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I get that... I really do... I am not sure the defense improves (as in Favs is a better defender than Rudy) but going against bench units he is quite productive. The issue is that is 12-14 minutes a night... it would be less in the playoffs. So if you can replace 75-80% of his production is that a meaningful difference if you improve in other areas. Having Favs also prevents us from getting a long term backup if we want... It's also tough to say that his numbers would be sustainable over 36 minutes going against starting units.

Because Favs is good I think we could move him on his one year deal to a cap space team for some assets... if he really is a top 10-12 center he should have a fair amount of trade value on that contract no?
 
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