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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Yeah, the problem with that is it's really not a "****show from all sides" is it?

No, it isn't. There is no moral equivalency we can make of it. No equality. Different is just different. We make it good or bad in our minds, more or less.... we have the power of delusion if we want to use it. But objectively, there is in the universe an actual inherent hierarchy of values.

Every living thing naturally puts its own interests on a priority.... either individually or as a member of a group.

We can form groups we like.... JFC could be made an example. If the JFC community really wants to be some ideal of a superior site with superior enlightened views, legally, you have to declare the intent and define it. Otherwise, "open to the public" means open to anyone.

Discerning superior values is actually the definition of intelligence, but a public discussion site with no defined values for inclusion/exclusion, ordinarily fares no better than the reasoning brought to the table.

If you can make your case, you may be still in want of a comprehending audience.....
 
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So, your cure to having (in your view) a conspiracy of the rich secretly influencing government is to arrange it so only the wealthy can afford to work in government?

You really disable your logic and reason with your use of prejudicial rhetoric. What is the relevance or value of ascribing to me a view described as "having a conspiracy of the rich secretly influencing government" as the only alternative to having "only the wealthy"who can afford to work in government? You miss the whole meaning, entirely.

government is a sort of necessary thing, and people may have hugely varying views of what is "good" or "necessary" in governance.

Having it exist as a tool for personal power or profit is a notion as old as the hills. Having it exist as a servant of the people is the revolutionary aspiration of the American founders, perhaps never very well implemented in practice.

I don't think there is anything particularly unwelcome either in having organizations with interests in the government, nor in having "wealthy" persons operating the government, so long as it is not being made a personal tool, where it is legitimately only a public tool only properly used to address some needed public service.

People who act corruptly, misdirecting the funds or privileges of power to interests other than the general public, are as a rule, bad conspirators. Personal benefits other than organized benefits, actually.

The possible value or contributions organizations, such as the CFR for example, or the Chamber of Commerce say, could be good for the public..... or bad..... depending on the coherence of the organization's values to the public values.

We could argue UN as a serviceable agent of mankind, benefiting mankind, as well. But again, the coherence of the values promoted with those of the people is the real issue. When the ordinary people are viewed as subjects to be manipulated and managed, I say those values are incoherent with the public good.
 
When I read transcripts or whatever regarding Trump-Ukraine: definitely quid pro quo, let's see if they can prove it.

When I read JF impeach Trump thread: **** ****, what a bunch of deranged psychotic lunatics. What alternate reality is this? Trump is obviously innocent here, what a crock of ****!

But that's the perception battle the poly-scy campaigners have waged and are fighting. Kinda funny the rabid, deluded fanatics here are helping the Trump side of public perception with their constant party hack nonsense. Good job guys. Well done.
 
Guy robs a bank

Runs away with the loot.

after his neighbor turns him in, he offers as proof the fact that he told people that he did not rob the bank.

Guys this is really not hard once you get past the propaganda.
 
When I read transcripts or whatever regarding Trump-Ukraine: definitely quid pro quo, let's see if they can prove it.

When I read JF impeach Trump thread: **** ****, what a bunch of deranged psychotic lunatics. What alternate reality is this? Trump is obviously innocent here, what a crock of ****!

But that's the perception battle the poly-scy campaigners have waged and are fighting. Kinda funny the rabid, deluded fanatics here are helping the Trump side of public perception with their constant party hack nonsense. Good job guys. Well done.

Any facts or just ranting today?


Ps: Wish I had studied polytical scyence.
 
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The only defense going forward is that Rudy went rogue. He told everyone that Donald wanted investigation for javelins and that this was trump’s directive.

like other trump sycophants, he’ll wind up under the bus.

And all these people who are believing the propaganda as just looking sillier and sillier every day as facts emerge.

Guys embrace the truth.
 
Sondland going from a smirk to
The only defense going forward is that Rudy went rogue. He told everyone that Donald wanted investigation for javelins and that this was trump’s directive.

like other trump sycophants, he’ll wind up under the bus.

And all these people who are believing the propaganda as just looking sillier and sillier every day as facts emerge.

Guys embrace the truth.
Indeed. This piece puts it pretty well. Although I'd argue Star Wars is far simpler than the Republican's narrative seems to be.

 
Sondland going from a smirk to

Indeed. This piece puts it pretty well. Although I'd argue Star Wars is far simpler than the Republican's narrative seems to be.



Yep.

When reality is so simple and straightforward your only chance is to confuse the unsophisticated minds. Seems to be working.
 
When I read transcripts or whatever regarding Trump-Ukraine: definitely quid pro quo, let's see if they can prove it.

When I read JF impeach Trump thread: **** ****, what a bunch of deranged psychotic lunatics. What alternate reality is this? Trump is obviously innocent here, what a crock of ****!

How about some truth concerning the impeachment!

But that's the perception battle the poly-scy campaigners have waged and are fighting. Kinda funny the rabid, deluded fanatics here are helping the Trump side of public perception with their constant party hack nonsense. Good job guys. Well done.
 
It actually is the reverse of what your logic misleads you believe. The wealthy wouldn't be "stupid" enough to work for less pay, and anyone who just doesn't need the pay..... like, for example, Trump.....might choose to do the job for the altruistic sorts of reasons.....and every schemer with a penchant for personal benefit would just gag at the idea of being so constrained.

They would take the jobs for the opportunity to increase power and influence and in shaping the world, so they or their families can make more money from outside investments., ala Kennedy and Trump.

The important thing is to demolish the linkage between government office and government power from the personal benefits you can receive from favored sources.

The best way to do that is to hire people who have minimal personal interests to benefit, aka, those who need the salary.

Then even the very rich could not benefit personally from the government position.

People like Trump and Kennedy do the job for free, donating their salary, because the other benefits are the important ones to them.
 
When the ordinary people are viewed as subjects to be manipulated and managed, I say those values are incoherent with the public good.

The people most likely to view ordinary people as subjects to be manipulated are the people from wealth.
 
The people most likely to view ordinary people as subjects to be manipulated are the people from wealth.
you don't give credit where it's due. Our founders were mostly quite wealthy, and most of them sacrificed their wealth for the cause of human liberty. they were also well educated, yet they tried to set up a government that would respect human beliefs, not become a tyrant with propaganda lines or religious belief systems, or fraudulent hoax philosophies useful for stirring up things, and manipulating the people, like socialism in most of its variants which attempt to implement it with guns and jackbooted thugs. Or taxation.

If you are speaking of people who have no religious convictions or concerns, sure, there is nothing they will let stand in the way of abusing the masses.
 
He's free to call him out as much as he wants. I'm just advocating that he read all the responses first. At least he'd be aware that he was rehashing what's already been said. Best case scenario, he finds something unique to add to the mass rebuke.

Being free to "call out" folks is called freedom of speech. No quarrel about that. Presumptions about intellect and authority are also worthy of being called out. And I'm free to do that.
 
They would take the jobs for the opportunity to increase power and influence and in shaping the world, so they or their families can make more money from outside investments., ala Kennedy and Trump.



The best way to do that is to hire people who have minimal personal interests to benefit, aka, those who need the salary.



People like Trump and Kennedy do the job for free, donating their salary, because the other benefits are the important ones to them.

These points are sorta fair, alright. But we should expect more from our public servants. And sometimes, the things they do are better than just their own interests or initiatives to make the world better in their view. Sometimes they do see the sense of a decision or policy that is just better in general, for everybody. Pretty sure nobody is really above the criticisms you wanna dish out. But you, and a horde of guvmint bureaucrats are subject to same human proclivities. I say, the way to better guvmint is to just thin the damn herd..... the herd of bureaucrats, not the citizens.....

I think Kennedy did a lot that was really good, though I never voted for him or wished to. I realized he was not just entirely anybody's dupe...... though maybe Khruschev considered him an idiot, and had his spies all around him. Kennedy was just smarter than the commies. And nobody owned him.

I think Reagan was good, but I considered him sorta owned or cornered in some respects. Damn the Bush dynasty.

Clinton sold out the democratic party, for whatever good there ever was in it, and made it more Rockefeller than the Republican party ever was. And the Union leadership sold out as well, bellying up to the feast with the honchos like they belonged there.
 
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