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1500 Missing Children

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.html

Some morons are just so dishonest it is disgusting, but at least the NY Times cares about facts more than I woulda thought they ever would. I can't believe Red or Bullet missed this, though.

Dems in the Legislature, along with RINO Republicans, are the holdouts who won't fix our laws and end the bad policy Obama set up.
I knew the kids weren't actually "lost" babe. Like we don't know where we put them and now traffickers have them.

The thing we're all disgusted by here is not the 1500 kids that our immigration services lost track of, it's the separation of kids from their families. Do you get that? And I don't give half a **** who's responsible, I want it to stop. Because regardless of who we can point fingers at, WE are doing this as a nation. WE are.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/migrant-children-missing.html

This story is about a month old, but in these crazy times I don't think it got the attention it deserved. Federal agencies have lost track of 1500 children who arrived at our border unaccompanied by their parents. This is a scandal that ought to be leading on the nightly news and is barely getting noticed.

Now ICE is pursuing a policy of separating accompanied children from their parents who cross the border illegally. How are we to trust that they are not losing these children as well? I believe when the dust settles on the Trump administration we are going to look back on this and wonder how Americans let this happen.

So in review, because of the comment above about how the OP article cited made a distinction, I'm reposting the OP for my response here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/politics/migrant-children-missing.html

The article is about Trump's representative testifying in Congress, trying to get Congress to do something to reverse Obama's law. He says that of nearly 7500 children placed in some kind of protective care, in homes generally often with related adults if possible, we had lost track of nearly 1500. What Trump wants, apparently, is a better law that will help end this ineffective care.

The situation is, according to my personal sources familiar with the border issues, there are gangs who are trying to collect on "loans" made to people who couldn't pay for their "safe passage" for illegals. These gangs are active on our soil, kidnapping or holding for ransom, people they definitely are not going to just forget about.

The group that was tracked were children who showed up at the border, making the claim of being a refugee from gang violence or other imminent danger. A lot of kids are being sent with instructions to make that claim. One report attempting to verify the claim asserts that 85% of such claims are actually false.

So parents are sending their kids ahead, in the care of drug cartels, on "credit".

Yes, some of the kids just slip outta our hands for whatever reason. We can't keep track of them long enough to establish much fact about them.

We gotta stop encouraging abuse of our laws inherent in our policies and lack of enterprise in making sure the people (children) we bring in are kept outta the hands of the drug cartel enforcers.
 
I knew the kids weren't actually "lost" babe. Like we don't know where we put them and now traffickers have them.

The thing we're all disgusted by here is not the 1500 kids that our immigration services lost track of, it's the separation of kids from their families. Do you get that? And I don't give half a **** who's responsible, I want it to stop. Because regardless of who we can point fingers at, WE are doing this as a nation. WE are.

OK, I know nothing about what you know or don't know. However, if you read the OP NY Times article, it states that the lost children are in the subset of immigrant children who showed up without parents with them at all. Not the children of parents suspected and held for possibly being gang bangers or some security risk. Children who made it to the border on their own two feet, without any adult claiming any responsibility for them.

I suspect that their parents sent them ahead, in the hands of cartels usually doing drug running as well. These cartels are pretty damn good at getting their collateral in their hands so they can collect on these debts. I suspect they are sorta herded into some big giant Corporate Ag harvesting crews where they can be watched and kept until they are paid. A real kind of slave labor, actually.

And hell yeah, we gotta stop this practice.

We need to enforce some laws like e-verify but our Ag Corp giant lobbyists are not using their influence to get effective enforced laws.
 
I knew the kids weren't actually "lost" babe. Like we don't know where we put them and now traffickers have them.

The thing we're all disgusted by here is not the 1500 kids that our immigration services lost track of, it's the separation of kids from their families. Do you get that? And I don't give half a **** who's responsible, I want it to stop. Because regardless of who we can point fingers at, WE are doing this as a nation. WE are.

Thank you, this problem is bigger than Trump or Obama. We as a nation have allowed our immigration enforcement agency to transform into something that far too closely resembles the Gestapo. We need to abolish ICE, destroy it root and stem, and start fresh with a new agency with safeguards in place so this ghastly **** doesn't happen again.
 
OK, I know nothing about what you know or don't know. However, if you read the OP NY Times article, it states that the lost children are in the subset of immigrant children who showed up without parents with them at all. Not the children of parents suspected and held for possibly being gang bangers or some security risk. Children who made it to the border on their own two feet, without any adult claiming any responsibility for them.

I suspect that their parents sent them ahead, in the hands of cartels usually doing drug running as well. These cartels are pretty damn good at getting their collateral in their hands so they can collect on these debts. I suspect they are sorta herded into some big giant Corporate Ag harvesting crews where they can be watched and kept until they are paid. A real kind of slave labor, actually.

And hell yeah, we gotta stop this practice.

We need to enforce some laws like e-verify but our Ag Corp giant lobbyists are not using their influence to get effective enforced laws.
You know not every brown person is a drug dealer, right?
 
babe, the policy has changed under this administration to charge EVERY person who crosses the border illegally with a crime, even if the only crime is crossing the border illegally. Because they are charged with a crime they are separated from their children. The easiest fix is to stop charging people with a crime if their only crime is crossing the border. You act like only those who are suspected of being drug smugglers or the like are having their kids taken. No, it is EVERYONE who crosses the border illegally because this administration has decided to prosecute all of them.
 
babe, the policy has changed under this administration to charge EVERY person who crosses the border illegally with a crime, even if the only crime is crossing the border illegally. Because they are charged with a crime they are separated from their children. The easiest fix is to stop charging people with a crime if their only crime is crossing the border. You act like only those who are suspected of being drug smugglers or the like are having their kids taken. No, it is EVERYONE who crosses the border illegally because this administration has decided to prosecute all of them.
This is particularly awful because it also applies to those seeking asylum. Here is a link to a helpful, albeit frustrating, Twitter conversation about just that.

 
Sorry I have to be brief here, and resort to generalities. I have many Mexican relatives.... Filipino, Chinese, and Korean as well. My brother adopted five children from El Salvador, another brother adopted three from Korea. My wife is a Mexican citizen with many live contacts. One bil was a border guard. Let's not be stupid about calling me some kind of racist. I have some American black relatives as well. Can't go to a family reunion sporting any kind of stupidity about it all.

Bad guvmint policies make me respect the general guvmint "solutions" less. Bad guvmint officials make me less inclined to believe in guvmint "fixes".

My thesis is that socialist guvmints south of the Border create less opportunity for human beings there. Let's fix the bad socialist guvmints at the minimum by requiring results favorable to the little people for all that foreign aid. Like require changes in their policies that kill enterprise and opportunity. Like do something about criminal enterprises like drug cartels other than take the bribes.

At the border we need a wall or some effective absolute end to illegal crossing under the guidance of drug cartels and human traffickers.

At every embassy or consulate, we need an effective staff to process claims of asylum. We should transport children showing up at the border with no adult responsible party back to the home country and place them in a processing center there where the facts which may support the asylum claim can be efficiently evaluated on the facts.

But most of those claims arise from bad guvmint officials down there, or from drug/human traffickers, or both. So if we got effective about controlling drug smuggling, and human smuggling, a lot of that could be stopped at the source.

Inside the US we need absolute enforcement of e-verify to end the attraction of illegal entry.
 
*government

Our Constitutional Government deserves respect and some kind of recognition apart from unconstitutional governance. When I'm referring to what I consider to be unconstitutional governance, or some foreign socialist dictatorship (the truth, practically speaking, of most socialist governments), I use an appropriate derogatory term. "Guvmint". It evokes all the street values of such governance. Them who's got the gold, or who prints the fiat paper currency, constitute a sort of "mint" run by the rascals.

Perhaps I should put out a sort of lexicon or dictionary of babese in a reference thread.
 
So I agree that separating children from parents at the border is really really bad. I recognize also that a policy of treating families showing up at the border as criminal cases is really really bad.


We will always be a destination nation for immigrants because we have lots of resources, and prospering businesses. But the policies of having an "open border" and favoring illegals who can't wait for the years it takes to be processed by official application at local embassies/consulates is politically exploited by Ag corporates or even smaller businesses in a way that depresses real wages and job opportunities for the Americans already here.

We have huge numbers of homeless, many of them Vets of our services who can hardly get medical care through the VA. I seen one camp on the south side of Stockton. Central Los Angeles and along the LA river channel, and similar watercourses through Orange County, and littler niches elsewhere house downandout Americans.

I've seen blacks hanging out begging in places like Modesto where a mile or two away there are hundreds of Mexicans scouring some field for harvest. This is not a slam on blacks. It's a slam on socialism. I've lived most of my life off reservations of American natives hooked on the guvmint who with just a little resourcefulness coulda been part of the mainstream, talented and intelligent as anyone, except they were trained up to be on the socialist handout wagon.

The Mexicans and others risking everything to come here today might vote democratic for a while, but when they have earned a stake in our economy and gotten their own enterprises underway, they will be a huge Republican wave.

I just think socialism has proven to be such a dismal failure ya'll oughta move on to some real solutions for our problems.


Looks like North Korea might turn for Trump. Rodman gave Kim a copy of "The Art of the Deal", and the two dealmakers are now at work. I call that capitalism. I look forward to a much better future for NK.
 
My wife wants me to go with her to Mexico on a sort of hinterlands vacation later this summer. That will be my second visit to Mexico.

So I'm sure I'm really quite a know-nothing compared to people who've been back and forth hundreds of times, who have businesses here and there as well.

I think it would end the killing fields of the drug cartels if we could eliminate their business of conducting illegals across the border, and end their drug smuggling. That needs to be the ultimate objective. It would end the wild wild west character of the issue.

I think e-verify is absolutely the answer, should be absolutely enforced to make hiring illegals absolutely unprofitable, and certainly so. Then issue the work permits as close to home as necessary. I know people who go there to hire to fill work permits, and then fly them in. That is the civilized way. Regular legit buses could do the job if not for the hired guns at every bend in the road.....
 
I've seen blacks hanging out begging in places like Modesto where a mile or two away there are hundreds of Mexicans scouring some field for harvest. This is not a slam on blacks. It's a slam on socialism.

Because before whatever you consider to be socialism, there weren't any black people out begging? Do you think the percentage of beggars in society has gone up since socialism?
 
In case anyone was wondering why Jeff Sessions has put up with Trumps abuse as long as he has, he gets to do things like this

 
Because before whatever you consider to be socialism, there weren't any black people out begging? Do you think the percentage of beggars in society has gone up since socialism?

This could be an important question about economics and human nature in general. At issue, at the root, is access to resources and opportunity in general.

I consider "socialism" (perhaps another necessary lexicon item for the language I speak.... babese...) to be an intellectual fraud invented by British elites, with perhaps some collusion from other European nations, in the context of Imperialism's difficulties and decline, late in the nineteenth century. A fraud because, of course, intellectual elites use it to divide the folks into classes and invoke high-level governance to manage the menagerie of less-enlightened folks.... it is really a kind of fascism or oligarchical puppetry on the world stage. A rhetorical tool used by an elite class to explain their "beneficient" schemes generally to the ignoramuses.

We have always had a ruling class. Before the American Revolution presented the illusion of actual human rights, innate or God-given, any fool could claim the "Divine Right of Kings" or maybe simply own an army, and tell folks what's what. Now we need ideology.... useful ideologies like "socialism".

Mormons at the outset were fairly communal. Joseph Smith claimed authority from God to redistribute wealth and assign the means of productions, etc etc etc. So I've have all my life to consider the implications of management from an elite class of the sheep-like masses of mankind....

American Indians were not beggars much before their lands were taken from them and they were put on reservations which were basically "socialist" experiments.

African blacks were not beggars before some, usually Muslim, enterprising bands captured them in the bush and sold them to the British slave traders, who packed them like sardines chained in the holds of little ships with no sanitary measures, and shipped them to the Americas for auction.

There were few opium addicts huddled in little tea shacks in China before the British at the force of arms unload opium grown in India by economically distressed former cotton farmers, whose livelihoods were destroyed by British machine cloth made from American slave-grown cotton.

I think any intellectual tradition hatched at Oxford, under the paternal influence of Lord Cecil Rhodes deserves all the skepticism and criticism we little peons can muster.....

So the answer, OB, is an absolute "Hell No!!!! Humans have never been beggars until dispossessed of access to natural resources and opportunities at hand by the likes of imperialists and slave traders."

And in case you missed the point, I consider the "New World Order" to be a grand scheme of that ilk, in the hands of corporatists, cartelists, and a whole slew of sleazy immoral elites.
 
This could be an important question about economics and human nature in general. At issue, at the root, is access to resources and opportunity in general.

I consider "socialism" (perhaps another necessary lexicon item for the language I speak.... babese...) to be an intellectual fraud invented by British elites, with perhaps some collusion from other European nations, in the context of Imperialism's difficulties and decline, late in the nineteenth century. A fraud because, of course, intellectual elites use it to divide the folks into classes and invoke high-level governance to manage the menagerie of less-enlightened folks.... it is really a kind of fascism or oligarchical puppetry on the world stage. A rhetorical tool used by an elite class to explain their "beneficient" schemes generally to the ignoramuses.

We have always had a ruling class. Before the American Revolution presented the illusion of actual human rights, innate or God-given, any fool could claim the "Divine Right of Kings" or maybe simply own an army, and tell folks what's what. Now we need ideology.... useful ideologies like "socialism".

Mormons at the outset were fairly communal. Joseph Smith claimed authority from God to redistribute wealth and assign the means of productions, etc etc etc. So I've have all my life to consider the implications of management from an elite class of the sheep-like masses of mankind....

American Indians were not beggars much before their lands were taken from them and they were put on reservations which were basically "socialist" experiments.

African blacks were not beggars before some, usually Muslim, enterprising bands captured them in the bush and sold them to the British slave traders, who packed them like sardines chained in the holds of little ships with no sanitary measures, and shipped them to the Americas for auction.

There were few opium addicts huddled in little tea shacks in China before the British at the force of arms unload opium grown in India by economically distressed former cotton farmers, whose livelihoods were destroyed by British machine cloth made from American slave-grown cotton.

I think any intellectual tradition hatched at Oxford, under the paternal influence of Lord Cecil Rhodes deserves all the skepticism and criticism we little peons can muster.....

So the answer, OB, is an absolute "Hell No!!!! Humans have never been beggars until dispossessed of access to natural resources and opportunities at hand by the likes of imperialists and slave traders."

And in case you missed the point, I consider the "New World Order" to be a grand scheme of that ilk, in the hands of corporatists, cartelists, and a whole slew of sleazy immoral elites.

Under the brave new world, the percentage of human beggars versus the managerial class of slave-drivers will be about 85%. 14.5% will be slave drivers. 0.5% will be swank drunks howling at underage sex slaves in marble hotels around a zillion UN "summits".
 
So the answer, OB, is an absolute "Hell No!!!! Humans have never been beggars until dispossessed of access to natural resources and opportunities at hand by the likes of imperialists and slave traders."

So, you have a profoundly counter-historical notion of the degree of poverty among people in the 14th, 15th, etc. centuries.

The vast majority of the residents of Modesto, and similar cities, are the working poor. They aren't beggars. Per capita, we have very few beggars here in the US.
 
So, you have a profoundly counter-historical notion of the degree of poverty among people in the 14th, 15th, etc. centuries.

The vast majority of the residents of Modesto, and similar cities, are the working poor. They aren't beggars. Per capita, we have very few beggars here in the US.

you need to include welfare recipients in your beggar statistics, along with the homeless who exist outta sight because of slum gentrification projects and panhandling laws. LA has about 60,000 homeless. A lot get welfare but it's not enough to pay rent and do drugs.

Europe's peasants were seriously dispossessed of access to resources, and had to huddle outside the castle walls and hope for winning a few crumbs from the Lordly feasts..... doing slavish work for slavish pay, maybe sharecropping for 25% of what they could grow with no plow or plowhorse. I see little difference between middle age peasantry and slaves. Until the black plague reduced the available poor population..... resulting in some actual scarcity of labor.... and better wages.

The black plague and the printing press started the development of ideas about human rights.....

I was only addressing human beings in areas without Church-State governments which I consider to be equivalent to fascism, or socialism, where the little people are sorta "owned" and managed by the elites.

free-range humans usually find a way other than being subservient or begging.
 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/upshot/liberals-immigration-children-border-misinformation.html

Some morons are just so dishonest it is disgusting, but at least the NY Times cares about facts more than I woulda thought they ever would. I can't believe Red or Bullet missed this, though.

Dems in the Legislature, along with RINO Republicans, are the holdouts who won't fix our laws and end the bad policy Obama set up.

I didn't miss it. What @Bulletproof told you in response to this specific comment is exactly how I feel as well. The new policy is evil. Period.
 
you need to include welfare recipients in your beggar statistics, along with the homeless who exist outta sight because of slum gentrification projects and panhandling laws. LA has about 60,000 homeless. A lot get welfare but it's not enough to pay rent and do drugs.

A large percentage of the welfare recipients are in the rural areas and small towns; many welfare recipients (including in the urban areas) are the working poor, and welfare recipients use drugs with lower frequency that the rich. We already know you are ignorant of these things, it's not necessary to continue to prove it over and over.

I see little difference between middle age peasantry and slaves. Until the black plague reduced the available poor population..... resulting in some actual scarcity of labor.... and better wages.

So the "socialism" you attribute to nefarious British secret societies was actually well in force long before those societies arrived.

I was only addressing human beings in areas without Church-State governments which I consider to be equivalent to fascism, or socialism, where the little people are sorta "owned" and managed by the elites.

free-range humans usually find a way other than being subservient or begging.

People with property generate wealth? What a novel concept.
 
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