2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

I swear Bleacher Report really wants us to have Love : https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...or-kevin-love-bradley-beal-nic-batum.amp.html

If we are going to shell out that much for Love, why wouldn't we just shell out the similar amount they have NOLA shelling out for Beal?

Couple of the other deals look okay...

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Jebus that is awful for us. I wouldn't do it straight up for exprirings at this point. Dude ain't even playing right now.

 

[LoPo]

Jebus that is awful for us. I wouldn't do it straight up for exprirings at this point. Dude ain't even playing right now.

Exactly my thoughts.

That contract extension was so incredibly idiotic. There is a chance Cleveland could have gotten a protected 1st for expiring Love. They better trade him for expirings while they can.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly my thoughts.

That contract extension was so incredibly idiotic. There is a chance Cleveland could have gotten a protected 1st for expiring Love. They better trade him for expirings while they can.

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The OP for Barnes trade was also weird... why would Dallas do that deal?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Homeytennis starting a thread on Luther Head as we speak.

There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.

I know this is highly unlikely, but what would Charlotte have to give for us to take Batum's contract?

The Charlotte Hornets are "desperate" to move Nicolas Batum
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...s-desperate-to-move-nicolas-batum-at-deadline

Are Batum and Gobert close from their time on the French National Team? Think we can get two good years out of Batum who used to be a pretty good all around player? Could we get draft picks from Charlotte? Batum, a 1st, and Tony Parker?

I'm very luke warm on it, but figured it was worth discussing.

No thanks. Does very little for the jazz and hinders their ability to improve. It’s just a dumb move.

 

[silesian]

Also, first rounders (even later ones) have value. (They are how we got Rubio and hill. Didnt even have to include anything else iirc).

Late firsts can be decent players for little money on a cheap rookie contract. Helpful to free up cap space to go after bigger fish

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.


No thanks. Does very little for the jazz and hinders their ability to improve. It’s just a dumb move.

Batum's usage rate fall off is curious. I've always liked his game but he's paid a lot. I'd want one unprotected pick and another protected pick to do it. Miles Bridges and a pick or Monk and a pick (send Monk to a 3rd team). Batum's motivation seems to come and go... wonder if a change gets him up to his normal level of playmaking. The Batum from last year or two years ago may not be there... maybe he fell off... but it also could be a system or motivation thing.

I'm going to stand by my declaration that our stars will almost certainly all come from the draft... so cap space is over-rated. Batum is too big of a bet not to get multiple draft assets. I laughed at the report that they'd move Kaminsky... if they could also move Batum in the same deal... really MJ???

If we end up rolling our space forward next year then not getting anything significant in 2020 passing up on "bad" deals like this kinda sucks. We are at the point in the season where I look at guys like Nic Batum, squint really hard, make 25 qualifiers, and then immediately hate myself... so please Jazz start winning more and DM please start shooting straight... TIA

 

[LoPo]

Batum's usage rate fall off is curious. I've always liked his game but he's paid a lot. I'd want one unprotected pick and another protected pick to do it. Miles Bridges and a pick or Monk and a pick (send Monk to a 3rd team). Batum's motivation seems to come and go... wonder if a change gets him up to his normal level of playmaking. The Batum from last year or two years ago may not be there... maybe he fell off... but it also could be a system or motivation thing.

I'm going to stand by my declaration that our stars will almost certainly all come from the draft... so cap space is over-rated. Batum is too big of a bet not to get multiple draft assets. I laughed at the report that they'd move Kaminsky... if they could also move Batum in the same deal... really MJ???

If we end up rolling our space forward next year then not getting anything significant in 2020 passing up on "bad" deals like this kinda sucks. We are at the point in the season where I look at guys like Nic Batum, squint really hard, make 25 qualifiers, and then immediately hate myself... so please Jazz start winning more and DM please start shooting straight... TIA

Good post.

I do like Tony Parker and I like that Bridges kid. If Charlotte offered Batum, Bridges, Parker and a future unprotected 1st for something like Favors, Thabo, Neto, Niang and a 2nd, I might take a hard look.

I think Gobert would have to light a fire under Batum but it could be worth it. Batum is a guy I always thought could contribute. His contract is just so horrendous. That 2020-21 $27 million is just awful.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jebus that is awful for us. I wouldn't do it straight up for exprirings at this point. Dude ain't even playing right now.

Ehh, it's about what it should take.

It's going to be Favors + a first + filler at bare minimum. I'd rather not put Allen as a sweetener, but it's not like Allen is some high potential piece. His ceiling is a 6th man type role player.

If Love was playing, he'd probably be putting up monster stats and it would seem more palatable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ehh, it's about what it should take.

It's going to be Favors + a first + filler at bare minimum. I'd rather not put Allen as a sweetener, but it's not like Allen is some high potential piece. His ceiling is a 6th man type role player.

If Love was playing, he'd probably be putting up monster stats and it would seem more palatable.

Well he's not playing and we don't know if he would be putting up monster stats. He may not be healthy this year, so this trade would be a step back for the current year... and we give up any potential in FA and a pick. So, if that is the price... then someone else can pay it. I don't think Love's contract is something with positive trade value. If he was a FA, based on this year and considering he's 31 when next season starts, would you pay him $30M a year for 4 years?

 

[LoPo]

I would rather Batum and his contract than Love and his contract. Plus, Batum probably comes with an asset whereas we have to give an asset for Love.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well he's not playing and we don't know if he would be putting up monster stats. He may not be healthy this year, so this trade would be a step back for the current year... and we give up any potential in FA and a pick. So, if that is the price... then someone else can pay it. I don't think Love's contract is something with positive trade value. If he was a FA, based on this year and considering he's 31 when next season starts, would you pay him $30M a year for 4 years?

I really don't want him, but if the move is to compete for a championship via a trade during the early Mitchell Era, it'd probably be the 2nd best move next to getting Otto Porter. I admittedly am torn on if they should go for one of those two trades or go with free agency.

Trading for a guy like Batum and getting mid-tier draft assets just seems like a meh move. I'm surprised Lopo advocates for it because it's the kind of "safe" GM move he advocates so strongly against (but his logic is fluid on what's safe/risky).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And yes, Gobert and Batum are friends, but just cuz someone is your friend doesnt mean you are blind to them being washed. It's not like Lebron is out here telling Magic to sign Melo.

I think a trade for mid-tier draft assets and a washed player on a bad contract sends a bad message to Gobert. You want to do the thing that makes the team better in the immediate and (hopefully) the future. I don't think you can do such a backwards move like Batum, so you can do what, draft a guy like Grant Williams with the 15th pick?

 

[LoPo]

I really don't want him, but if the move is to compete for a championship via a trade during the early Mitchell Era, it'd probably be the 2nd best move next to getting Otto Porter.

Trading for a guy like Batum and getting mid-tier draft assets just seems like a meh move. I'm surprised Lopo advocates for it because it's the kind of "safe" GM move he advocates so strongly against (but his logic is fluid on what's safe/risky).

Moving for Batum isn't safe at all. I would be gambling on Gobert pushing Batum more due to their National team history. Batum is a guy shooting 40% from 3 who plays much like a Porter and poor man's Tobias Harris.

Bridges is a great piece for the future who can play some 3 and some 4.

Like HH said, we need to find our next great player via the draft. I think we can get a 1st much better than ours from Charlotte if we take Batum.

My theory is that we won't do jack in free agency in the next couple years better than what we currently have. Maybe we hit 2021 or so with more league capital to entice a player to join Mitchell. Until then, I have my doubts.

Love is just a terrible idea. We wouldn't be able to keep Gobert and Love both on the floor in the playoffs. Plus he kills cap space for 4 more years after this one.

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[LoPo]

I'm not sold on a Batum deal. Actually, I don't like it. However, I like a Batum deal over a Love deal.

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[LoPo]

And yes, Gobert and Batum are friends, but just cuz someone is your friend doesnt mean you are blind to them being washed. It's not like Lebron is out here telling Magic to sign Melo.

I think a trade for mid-tier draft assets and a washed player on a bad contract sends a bad message to Gobert. You want to do the thing that makes the team better in the immediate and (hopefully) the future. I don't think you can do such a backwards move like Batum, so you can do what, draft a guy like Grant Williams with the 15th pick?

I understand what you are saying and I agree to a certain extent. Like I said, I'm not a fan of a Batum deal.

In his defense though, Charlotte is really bad. The team has one scorer who is also the facilitator and a bunch of scrubs. I think Batum fits what we want to do from the 4, but he isn't all we need to contend. He would have less defensive attention with us which probably improves his value.

A Batum move is a lateral move with the hopes that the draft pick and Bridges turn into something great. It would be better than striking out this summer or just staying put.

I still hate his contract.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Anytime you set the timeline back as a GM, it's a safe move. You are prolonging your job security and the delaying the criticism.

Trading for Batum to get younger pieces and draft assets moves the timeline back and delays blame on DL.

Taking away cap-space means DL can't fail in signing in a starter level FA.

Saying "We need to let Bridges/draft pick develop" buys you time (though I don't think Bridges is attainable the way you laid it out. At best it'd be Monk and a 1st round pick).

It's all very safe.

Risk is putting something on the line. Trading for Love or Porter is putting a stake in the ground and say this is what we are and how we are going to compete. You have advocated against the safe moves when you want to argue with someone.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not sold on a Batum deal. Actually, I don't like it. However, I like a Batum deal over a Love deal.

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I'm with ya

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[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m not a big fan of either deal unless Hornet ponies up 2 juicy picks or 1 juicy pick and Bridges.

We can say that a mid tier pick isn’t valuable but plenty of guys drafted from 10-30 have become great... low odds of course but not much lower than us signing a potential all star imo.

I wouldn’t give up those picks and would look for opportunities to acquire those... Batum is too spendy but he’s kind of intriguing if you think he isn’t washed... he might be, but Love might be too.

If a first and expirings is the minimum that Cleveland will accept then they better get ready to have him for a long time.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Anytime you set the timeline back as a GM, it's a safe move. You are prolonging your job security and the delaying the criticism.

Trading for Batum to get younger pieces and draft assets moves the timeline back and delays blame on DL.

Taking away cap-space means DL can't fail in signing in a starter level FA.

Saying "We need to let Bridges/draft pick develop" buys you time (though I don't think Bridges is attainable the way you laid it out. At best it'd be Monk and a 1st round pick).

It's all very safe.

Risk is putting something on the line. Trading for Love or Porter is putting a stake in the ground and say this is what we are and how we are going to compete. You have advocated against the safe moves when you want to argue with someone.

Might be safe in our market because we believe in continuity but if you want to talk job preservation for GMs selling off picks for win now pieces is kind of the go to move.

I don’t think DL worries too much about job security... I think he feels pretty safe. Even if it went south another team would likely hire him quickly.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don’t think Charlotte is including Bridges in any kind of salary dump. I don’t think they’d send two 1st either. So that would be a no for me.

Batum + Bridges and a 1st and you’ve got me at the table and ready to pull the trigger.

I still believe the core (Gobert, Mitchell, Quin, and a stable of versatile 6’ 8”-ish guys) is a move or two from substantial improvement, especially improving who will primarily play the 4 on this team (as oppose to starting a 5, then cobbling together all the other minutes at the position game-by-game.).

I feel like Batum has the skill-set to play an Ingles-type role, and he’s always fared as well as he’s feeling about his situation. Bridges could at long last be our answer as the primary 4 on this team.

That still leaves a lot of questions about what the hell is going to happen at the PG spot, but if you can get Bridges then you seriously consider it.