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2020 Presidential election

The Thriller said:
What’s wrong with some form of free tuition and/or student loan forgiveness? Seems to me that those things might be necessary if we ever hope to restart this economy and turn the tables on wealth inequality. Especially for those going into the medical profession. After this pandemic we might need it to rebuild our health care system.

Like we understand most western democracies do these sort of things for its citizens, right?
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Or they can be a big boy/girl and pay it off themselves by working hard, learning responsibility, and picking a field in demand.
 
Gameface said:
100% agree!!!!!

I'm tired of these elementary school kids taking their free education for granted. Put their lazy asses to work at the factory!
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Yeah! Damn freeloaders!
 
One Brow said:
Why is loading our young workers with enormous debt better for us as a country?
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It's not. The real problem is school just isn't affordable. Free college is a great idea, but there's a bill to collect somewhere and that's going to fall on the taxpayer.

0% APR loans, cheaper tuition and getting rid of two years of general education classes would be a great start.
 
Avery said:
It's not. The real problem is school just isn't affordable. Free college is a great idea, but there's a bill to collect somewhere and that's going to fall on the taxpayer.

0% APR loans, cheaper tuition and getting rid of two years of general education classes would be a great start.
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Those general ed classes are wicked important for a lot of students. As someone who worked in the belly of that beast for a long time, I can’t imagine that the upper-level classes would work without them.
 
NAOS said:
Those general ed classes are wicked important for a lot of students. As someone who worked in the belly of that beast for a long time, I can’t imagine that the upper-level classes would work without them.
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To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
 
LogGrad98 said:
To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
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Hey I took golf and bowling in college and the skills I learned in those classes have helped me immensely as a quality control technician. (I haven't golfed in years and I only bowl a couple times per year btw)

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LogGrad98 said:
To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
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Lots of things to say in reply...

First, your general perspective here comes across as very careerist. I can tell you without a shade of uncertainty that when students enter college, they need to learn how to be an adult human being...the extreme majority of them are literally just getting started.

Second, go gather some statistics about the percentage of students who know their major going in, and those that change their major at least once. Based on my experience, I’m very weary of students who seem totally sure what their major is going in.

Third, an appreciation of film, if taught well, could absolutely change the outlook of a student. At this point, how much of our reality is mediated by televisual imagery? Hacking into that **** is getting more vital, not less. Also, a degree in film studies can set you up for lucrative jobs in the film and entertainment industries. This is precisely what happened for me, after taking intro to film aa an elective at the U of U.

If you’re looking for fat to trim off the education system, I’d look more in the direction of high school. The mandatory, institutional nature of that environment is sapping our youth; they often come into college worn down by it, or with a significant load of false confidence because of their testing or some ****. If I had a kid that age, I would really encourage one of the many alternative scenarios wherein he/she would start self-selecting what and when they were learning by around 14 years old.

I could go on.
 
NAOS said:
Lots of things to say in reply...

First, your general perspective here comes across as very careerist. I can tell you without a shade of uncertainty that when students enter college, they need to learn how to be an adult human being...the extreme majority of them are literally just getting started.

Second, go gather some statistics about the percentage of students who know their major going in, and those that change their major at least once. Based on my experience, I’m very weary of students who seem totally sure what their major is going in.

Third, an appreciation of film, if taught well, could absolutely change the outlook of a student. At this point, how much of our reality is mediated by televisual imagery? Hacking into that **** is getting more vital, not less. Also, a degree in film studies can set you up for lucrative jobs in the film and entertainment industries. This is precisely what happened for me, after taking intro to film aa an elective at the U of U.

If you’re looking for fat to trim off the education system, I’d look more in the direction of high school. The mandatory, institutional nature of that environment is sapping our youth; they often come into college worn down by it, or with a significant load of false confidence because of their testing or some ****. If I had a kid that age, I would really encourage one of the many alternative scenarios wherein he/she would start self-selecting what and when they were learning by around 14 years old.

I could go on.
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I fully agree with what you're saying here, especially about high school and about the state of most kids as they enter college. I still think revamping of the general Ed requirements would be beneficial. Even if it can't be tied directly to a major, I feel like there is improvement that can be made there. Like you said, appreciation of Cinema, if taught correctly, can expand someone's Outlook, but I really wonder how often it is taught correctly. Are there universal standards around the country to ensure that a class like this is taught correctly? Do we even really have a good grasp of what teaching a class like this correctly would look like? I know when I took it the professor more or less said, go watch this movie and write a review like you would see in the paper. Then when we turned it in he would return it to us telling us where we were wrong because we disagreed with him. And having some discussions with friends about this and other gen Ed classes, including my daughter who is in college right now, their experiences were largely the same. So yes I absolutely agree students need some breadth in their Early college education, but there are definitely improvements to be made there.

But on the topic of high school, we have found it largely to be a cumbersome joke. My youngest daughter just graduated as the class of 2020, and for much of her High School experience she felt exactly as you expressed it. I don't feel anything in her classes did a good job of preparing her for college or any kind of Life after High School. Our education system in general has a lot of improving to do to catch up with many of the countries leading the pack.
 
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