Amen sort of feels like a bigger/taller Dejounte Murray to me. He scores, drives, rebounds, assists, and defends well. He has good court vision. His shot was not the best, but has improved, yet he has been impactful. Before Dejounte went to Atlanta and was a bad fit next to Trae, people loved him despite his weaknesses, because he does so much else great.
2023 NBA Draft Megathread
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
- Start date
Can we trade #4 after getting it? Cuz if we can then I take getting #4 and might trade down (Orlando?).
I’m getting tunnel vision but I like Hendricks as much or more than those in the projected in the 4-7 range. Everyone in that range has significant question marks.
If you can parlay what the Jazz have into Hendricks, Wallace, and Dick then hoooowee.
They should be able to get him at #27, but if not they shouldn’t be bending the upside of the upcoming build for a dude that might not be able to defend in the NBA at a position where it’s a prerequisite.
Also, KO is (or at least was) mobile for his size which even if you’re not jumping out of the gym or leading a fast break works in the modern NBA. Flip looks straight up slow to me.
You honestly think Cason would be available at 27? That would shock me personally.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Murray can shoot... Amen can not. I like Amen and I like Murray too... but I think they are pretty different. Amen is a nuclear athlete... Murray is a solid athlete.
I get what you are saying but Murray isn't a bad shooter... and Amen likely has much more upside... BUT that shot is bad.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
I'm kind of getting nervous about Hendricks. His path to success is being a great, efficient scorer, and I'm not sure he can get there. If he can do a dozen things great at a college level but all of it is average or below at an NBA level then he may not really have a defined role as an NBA player. If he was being projected as a sit in the corner for threes and play good defense guy I might actually be more high on him, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I don't know jack ****. So he's probably a future all NBA player. And I'd be excited if we got him. But it's pretty easy for me to envision a scenario three years from now where he checks into games from the bench and people say "oh yea, I liked this guy, what happened?" And he just never quite found his role and just kind of does everything at a mediocre level.
It's pessimism season though. Way easier to talk yourself out of most guys than into them based on whatever tape, stats, etc. we have for them.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
If Danny drafts Flip with the Minny pick I will get tossed out of Vegas summer league for heckling his ***.
Nope. The scenario I’m laying out would be #4 (and whatever) for Orlando’s two (likely) lottery picks and keeping the Wolves pick. The Jazz would be working with:
~#8
~#12
~#15 (maybe they can trade up a few spots from here)
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Hendo is one of the safest lotto picks. He has two very good things to hang his hat on right now... He is a great secondary rim protector and a great shooter. At 6-9 with a 7-0 wingspan and really good athleticism... he may never have to be able to dribble and could still be a valuable starter.
He is a version of a unicorn... the knock on him really is that his upside may not be as high as other dudes if he isn't a ball in hand type of guy.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
A unicorn with low upside feels like a contradiction. I'm not making any predictions and you guys would know a lot better than me. I do think he has a floor well below what people assume his to be.
If all he does is hit threes, dunk the basketball, be athletic, and block shots then that is great. I think he can do that.
I’m not particularly worried if he’s not a good playmaker or doesn’t have great touch on layups (I’m certain he would get better at that if he sees the floor).
Contrast that with the 4-7 dudes. Amen could straight bust since he can’t shoot so he has to dominate the ball. Both twins were 20 year old men playing in a super-AAU league that plays 16 year olds. Whitmore is my favorite in that group but he didn’t exactly set the world on fire. If Walker’s shot doesn’t come around then he’ll be a good defender that might not be a great rim protector.
1. I think unicorn more refers to an incredibly rare combination of attributes. Guys that can protect the rim well and hit threes are uncommon. Guys that do those things and could probably switch 1-5 are basically non-existent.
2. I’m not sure that the above would describe “low-upside”.
Bawse Dawg
Well-Known Member
That's what I'm saying though. All of those things sound great, but then HH says his knock is that his upside isn't as high. Based on these descriptions he's a perfect prospect. But he obviously isn't, so it just seems like something is missing.
I'm being a contrarian ******* right now. I just feel like every draft players are talked about in a similar way to Hendricks right now and we've seen those players actually end up having a floor way below what everyone thought, and ended up being bad picks.
Sure. I think HH is talking about that he doesn’t project to be any kind of on-ball scorer which is what everyone dreams of in a top-10 pick. Or perhaps that he generally lacks some connective pieces to his game that make him incomplete (currently).
I think dudes that make the most valuable shots in basketball (but need to be set up) and have the most valuable defensive traits (1-5 switchability, stocks) are way more valuable than most guys that can make plays from scratch.
But to play along, Thon Maker theoretically could’ve been this dude.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
The unicorn stuff is simply shooting threes and protecting the rim. Those are the things that are synonymous with the term.
That could look like what Robert Covington was in Houston... it could also be better (or worse) and that is why he might not have as much upside as a guy that projects to be an offensive engine or score 25 a game.
If you just play that role well and become a good roll guy... then it might not be an all-star... but it can have all-star impact. If the on ball stuff comes then he has as much upside as a lot of dudes in the top 5... but I am not just going to assume that comes. It would be a bit of a surprise to me.
He could be some version of what Lauri is doing... which is awesome.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Thon was so theoretical though... I'd like to find a guy that did it in college and then flamed out in the nba.
Taylor is in some rare company... I posted a tweet about his combo of blk rate, dunks, and threes... its pretty insane what he did.
I also watched like 5 full games of his because they were on ESPN and I wanted to see what this dude was like. His guards were pretty trashy and just did not look for him enough. He still always played the right way and moved the ball along. He just got everything in the flow of the game plan. I just love how he went about his business.
Hendo is great on paper and I still like him a lot, there's still something off about him when I watch him. I'm not sure he has a great feel for the game, but he has an easy path to being a role player. I think shooting will be fine, not great, but enough to get by. Defensively is where he will make his money.
Keyonte/Hendo is kind of a contradiction in the way I usually evaluate. Keyonte is kinda the opposite where he's not amazing on paper, but he has that bonafide hooper gene that I think Hendricks is lacking. I have them both around the same tier and wouldn't be made with either.....but it's a tough decision for me.
Keyonte/Hendo is kind of a contradiction in the way I usually evaluate. Keyonte is kinda the opposite where he's not amazing on paper, but he has that bonafide hooper gene that I think Hendricks is lacking. I have them both around the same tier and wouldn't be made with either.....but it's a tough decision for me.
I want players who can recognize their faults and not be in denial. I think Amen could just power through his flaws but the team would be worse off for it. A player like Taylor Hendricks, I can see him recognizing and addressing his flaws sooner, the same with Cam. And funny enough, I see Ausar make that recognition quickly too. Anyway, oh please let Cam drop to 9th or 10th!
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
What? Have you actually watched him in real games? This is a super weird statement. The guy who makes great reads on when to help doesn't have great feel for the game? He's not making those slick Walker passes but he moves the ball very quickly. When I watched him I thought he was simply executing the game plan to the way the coach wanted.
But cuz he's not out there doing And 1 **** and taking bad shots he's not a hooper... okay.
Do better.