Annual Black and Purple Thread
- Thread starter franklin
- Start date
Nope. The wife and I just decided we wanted to see the park, so we got some tickets (we picked a series against the Giants, of course.)
scootsy
Well-Known Member
That is what homers do.........
I know hardly anything about baseball and am going by the stats alone. It doesn't matter what name is associated with the numbers to me. Here's the lines:
Tulowitzki 222 AB, .347ba, .413OBP, 1.048OPS, 16 doubles, 16hr, 51rbi.
Votto: 261AB, .318ba, .437OBP, .935OPS, 12 doubles, 11hr, 33rbi.
The only edge he has in OBP, and it's an excellent number, but Tulo's is nothing to balk at (3rd overall). Votto's rbi and hr aren't impressive at all. And he's putting up worse numbers with 0.175% more at bats (something that's going to take the trophy from Tulo).
At the same batting average, Cargo has hit 9 more homers with 23 more RBI. Those Votto walks are great, but Cargo's willingness to swing the bat means he has scored more runs that Mr. Walk. I'd take his line over Votto's as well.
scootsy
Well-Known Member
I understand your perspective(ie. the statistical argument). My vote still goes to Votto.
The winning team argument or what? Genuinely interested
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
The injury to Tulo is going to really hamper his chances at an MVP at least this season. He was putting up some great numbers before the fractured rib. 4-6 weeks out will all but put him out of the MVP picture. I think Votto, Posey, Goldschmidt(if he can continue to produce as he has), and even Molina will get some love in regards to voting. Tulo still I guess could be in the picture if he gets back and just continues to dominate. That's a lot of time to miss though.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
Props to the Rox for drafting and then signing Jonathan Gray to a bonus of $4.8 million. It was $826,400 below the slot value for the 3rd overall pick and that savings now can be used on other picks in their draft class. Gray has the potential to be an ace if he can figure Coors out and improve his change. Right now he has a plus-plus fastball that reaches triple digits and a plus-plus slider that is of the wipe out variety.
[video=youtube_share;w-Yc7mjoO9k]https://youtu.be/w-Yc7mjoO9k
[video=youtube_share;w-Yc7mjoO9k]https://youtu.be/w-Yc7mjoO9k
Agreed on the injury.. Pointed to it earlier.
Why Votto though? The early start?
Lol that fan at .53
scootsy
Well-Known Member
good call there trigg3r. love this kid (outside of kershaw, the best young arms are coming from college), definitely more powerful than appel, could wind up having a much better career. wouldn't call that slider plus plus though.. he'll spend a year and a half in the system refining the slider, and he'll be hell in the bigs real soon.
scootsy
Well-Known Member
tbh, i probably shouldn't give this as much weight as i do, because gabp is pretty hitter friendly, but votto doesn't play 81 games in coors. he's on a better team (admittedly a problem at the root of all mvp voting) which simply makes his good play more noteworthy. as far as rbi's, he certainly has less because he bats at the front end of their all-star/roty worthy lineup. choo, cozart, votto, brandon phillips, jay bruce, todd frazier.. damn.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
This is one game with the slider. I agree that it didn't have the bite that you would designate as plus-plus, especially in the called strike threes. But in other game film you can get a much better view of it and it is plus-plus. The reason I posted this particular video clip was that you actually got to see the camera angle from behind Gray. Other youtube videos have the scouts perspective behind the screen and sometimes it is harder to make out pitch location.
As for Gray versus Appel. Appel has very good pitches right now with a fastball that can reach the upper 90's if need be(it's not rated an 80 on the scale because it is straight. It's about a 70). His slurve is also a very nice pitch that should get a lot of swings and misses when he plays it off the fastball. The huge difference between 2012 Appel and 2013 Appel is that his change is very good and he uses it more. Appel's biggest knock coming into this season was that he wasn't aggressive enough with his stuff. He showed everyone this season that he could be aggressive and throw inside.
Gray's fastball is an 80 on a scouts 20-80 scale. Not only can he hit triple digits and go over that mark, but he also has a ton of run on his fastball which leads to a lot of ground balls, weak contact, and jam jobs. His slider can make hitters look silly at times. He needs to keep working on his change. He didn't need one this year so he didn't really develop one. That will change when he gets with the Rox. Both Appel and Gray are going to be fast movers through a system if they stay healthy. I expect both to be called up in September of 2014 if not a bit sooner.
trigg3r
Well-Known Member
I think winning will come into the decision. I don't like to say that, but I think it will. You have a good team in the Reds whose MVP is arguably Choo or Votto. I don't think we are even seeing Votto at his best right now and he still has an OPS of .934. That's with his SLG% 50 points below his career average. They also say that 28-32 or 33 are your peak years as a player. Votto is currently 29. I think by the end of the year his stats will be even better and he will put himself in the discussion. I am not saying he wins it. I don't know who wins it right now. A lot of guys can make an argument for themselves.
No kidding!!!!