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Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

LoPo said:
That is stupid money. No way he is worth that for a majority of that deal. Remember, we have him locked up this year.

Paying him $35+ per year when he is 31, 32 and 33 is too risky.

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I worry that if he doesn't re-sign that it hangs over the team and hurts us this year. it would be tough to trade him for any kind of return. The extension helps guarantee his happiness and gives us a year or two in additional window. I don't expect us to run it back the entire 5-6 years. If Udoka was ready or if we just stagnated you could still move him for a solid return.

Trading him now would not net anything good enough and really ****s up our only realistic championship window. I just don't think DM stays here his whole career and in 4-5 years we will be in full rebuild mode... unless we've just been super duper successful... in which case the extension was worth it.
 
Why don't we just give him 2 years and $85-90 million? Sure its a ton of money, but we lower the risk that comes with a long term deal. Rudy gets paid huge in his prime and can bet on himself to be worth a last big deal in 2023 either here or elsewhere.

By 2023, we can decide to bring Rudy back or move on with other young pieces around Donovan if building around Rudy never pans out for title contention. Gives us a two year window to build around Don.

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LoPo said:
That is stupid money. No way he is worth that for a majority of that deal. Remember, we have him locked up this year.

Paying him $35+ per year when he is 31, 32 and 33 is too risky.

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Also if you did it for 5/165 you could decline the salary and you'd pay him 30M and 26.5M in his 32/33 season... ain't bad.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I worry that if he doesn't re-sign that it hangs over the team and hurts us this year. it would be tough to trade him for any kind of return. The extension helps guarantee his happiness and gives us a year or two in additional window. I don't expect us to run it back the entire 5-6 years. If Udoka was ready or if we just stagnated you could still move him for a solid return.

Trading him now would not net anything good enough and really ****s up our only realistic championship window. I just don't think DM stays here his whole career and in 4-5 years we will be in full rebuild mode... unless we've just been super duper successful... in which case the extension was worth it.
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If we traded him, would the other team have the ability to extend him to a similar deal he wants? If so, couldn't we get a lot for him in a trade?

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LoPo said:
Why don't we just give him 2 years and $85-90 million? Sure its a ton of money, but we lower the risk that comes with a long term deal. Rudy gets paid huge in his prime and can bet on himself to be worth a last big deal in 2023 either here or elsewhere.

By 2023, we can decide to bring Rudy back or move on with other young pieces around Donovan if building around Rudy never pans out for title contention. Gives us a two year window to build around Don.

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Because that deal is not legal. Supermax has to go out 5 years. Two year extension max would be 2 /70M... he'd never go for it.
 
LoPo said:
If we traded him, would the other team have the ability to extend him to a similar deal he wants? If so, couldn't we get a lot for him in a trade?

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What would Dallas or Toronto give you 1 week before the season starts for him? Zinger comes with a lot more risk and they likely try to keep him out of the deal. Toronto ain't putting in Pascal... 1sts and Kyle? Kinda screws up the next year or two no?

They couldn't do the supermax anyway... I think 4/151M is the max they could do.

We basically have 3-5 years with this core if we are lucky... then we need to rebuild. I think DM walks or is traded at some point. Extension now give it a shot and preserves Rudy as a trade asset. Maybe in year 3 we have an opportunity to pivot and provide DM with something that makes him sign and extension... or we move him and start the rebuild early (like OKC) and get lots of assets on the way out.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
What would Dallas or Toronto give you 1 week before the season starts for him? Zinger comes with a lot more risk and they likely try to keep him out of the deal. Toronto ain't putting in Pascal... 1sts and Kyle? Kinda screws up the next year or two no?

They couldn't do the supermax anyway... I think 4/151M is the max they could do.

We basically have 3-5 years with this core if we are lucky... then we need to rebuild. I think DM walks or is traded at some point. Extension now give it a shot and preserves Rudy as a trade asset. Maybe in year 3 we have an opportunity to pivot and provide DM with something that makes him sign and extension... or we move him and start the rebuild early (like OKC) and get lots of assets on the way out.
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If Don walks, I think its because it doesn't work with Rudy. Come playoff time, Don is more important. In terms of off court financial implications, Don is more important.

I hesitate on a 5 year deal for Gobert because he will be an aging big AND because I'm not sold on the Don/Rudy dynamic long term. We have built the entire franchise around Rudy the last 3 years and we have 1 series win to show for it. And that series was won more by Don's heroics.



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LoPo said:
2 year max for a DPOY and All NBA is still only $35 per year? Seems low

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Supermax require you to go out 5 years... so at a minimum tack on 4 years to his deal. So all you are left with is regular max. Either way he'd say no though. It is more about total dollars than getting a few million more per year.
 
LoPo said:
If Don walks, I think its because it doesn't work with Rudy. Come playoff time, Don is more important. In terms of off court financial implications, Don is more important.

I hesitate on a 5 year deal for Gobert because he will be an aging big AND because I'm not sold on the Don/Rudy dynamic long term. We have built the entire franchise around Rudy the last 3 years and we have 1 series win to show for it. And that series was won more by Don's heroics.



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I'm not convinced the Don Rudy dynamic goes a whole lot further than the second round of the playoffs. My worry is that the Don and whatever we get for Rudy dynamic gets us to the late lottery... makes Don wonder where this is headed... and then he wants out faster.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm not convinced the Don Rudy dynamic goes a whole lot further than the second round of the playoffs. My worry is that the Don and whatever we get for Rudy dynamic gets us to the late lottery... makes Don wonder where this is headed... and then he wants out faster.
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If a Don and Rudy team can only get to the 2nd round maybe.....why are we going to put everything into Rudy knowing it won't work?

I think Don is an extremely rare talent. His accomplishments after three years rival on a few in the history of the game. Why not build around him? Why risk losing him for an exercise in futility?

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LoPo said:
If a Don and Rudy team can only get to the 2nd round maybe.....why are we going to put everything into Rudy knowing it won't work?

I think Don is an extremely rare talent. His accomplishments after three years rival on a few in the history of the game. Why not build around him? Why risk losing him for an exercise in futility?

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Making the WCF is not futility. It puts you an ankle sprain away from winning it all. Don is great... I love him, but numbers are inflated in this era so we need to calm down a hair.

We don't know that keeping Rudy will fail... we also don't know that what we get for him will be better than him on a spendy deal... trading Rudy may very well be the thing that makes DM want to walk. Flat out the next two years I see no reasonable deal that makes us better by trading Rudy. So whatever future assets you got they better ****ing work fast otherwise Don looks around at the roster and realizes this **** won't get us to the promised land.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Making the WCF is not futility. It puts you an ankle sprain away from winning it all. Don is great... I love him, but numbers are inflated in this era so we need to calm down a hair.

We don't know that keeping Rudy will fail... we also don't know that what we get for him will be better than him on a spendy deal... trading Rudy may very well be the thing that makes DM want to walk. Flat out the next two years I see no reasonable deal that makes us better by trading Rudy. So whatever future assets you got they better ****ing work fast otherwise Don looks around at the roster and realizes this **** won't get us to the promised land.
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I'm saying if Don and Rudy don't work. There were many reports Rudy was annoying people. This was before the COVID incident. But if Don wants Rudy, then yes continue.

As for discounting Don because of "inflated numbers", that's ********. Don is the first rookie since Wilt to lead his team to a playoff series win. He gets better every year. He had the 3rd best scoring game in playoff history regardless of everybody else having a chance to do better. He hit the most 3s in rookie history.

Don is on a legendary path. He sees the floor like few others.

Maybe everybody should stop worshipping the ground Rudy walks on and embrace Don.

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Don is the reason you keep Rudy. You want to win while he's still here right? Without Rudy, we might not even make the playoffs. The only situation in which moving on from Rudy from Donovan is if it's a chemistry thing where he absolutely won't play with him. Unless there's an ultimatum from Don that Rudy must go, why else is moving on from Rudy a move towards Don?

If you want to build around a young star, the last thing you want to do is trade away an All NBA player for peanuts or lose him for nothing. There is nothing logical about that.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
What would Dallas or Toronto give you 1 week before the season starts for him? Zinger comes with a lot more risk and they likely try to keep him out of the deal. Toronto ain't putting in Pascal... 1sts and Kyle? Kinda screws up the next year or two no?

They couldn't do the supermax anyway... I think 4/151M is the max they could do.

We basically have 3-5 years with this core if we are lucky... then we need to rebuild. I think DM walks or is traded at some point. Extension now give it a shot and preserves Rudy as a trade asset. Maybe in year 3 we have an opportunity to pivot and provide DM with something that makes him sign and extension... or we move him and start the rebuild early (like OKC) and get lots of assets on the way out.
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Pretty much this.
 
LoPo said:
I'm saying if Don and Rudy don't work. There were many reports Rudy was annoying people. This was before the COVID incident. But if Don wants Rudy, then yes continue.

As for discounting Don because of "inflated numbers", that's ********. Don is the first rookie since Wilt to lead his team to a playoff series win. He gets better every year. He had the 3rd best scoring game in playoff history regardless of everybody else having a chance to do better. He hit the most 3s in rookie history.

Don is on a legendary path. He sees the floor like few others.

Maybe everybody should stop worshipping the ground Rudy walks on and embrace Don.

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Wait you compared Don to Wilt and said he's on a legendary path and sees the floor like few others... but we are the ones worshipping the ground a player walks on?

Don is great... love him. All of the numbers from this era are inflated... its not ********... its a fact. I mean Trae Young went 30 and 10 last year and he's two years younger than Don... is he on a legendary path as well? Not saying Don is empty calories but a little chill is required... I'd say the same thing if you compared Rudy to Bill Russell.
 
KqWIN said:
Don is the reason you keep Rudy. You want to win while he's still here right? Without Rudy, we might not even make the playoffs. The only situation in which moving on from Rudy from Donovan is if it's a chemistry thing where he absolutely won't play with him. Unless there's an ultimatum from Don that Rudy must go, why else is moving on from Rudy a move towards Don?

If you want to build around a young star, the last thing you want to do is trade away an All NBA player for peanuts or lose him for nothing. There is nothing logical about that.
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Even if we got 4 quarters for that dollar you still are worse the next two to three years... then you better hope one of the picks you got is a homerun otherwise Don is basically a year away from unrestricted FA.
 
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