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Are You Believers Now?!!!

green said:
Which team would you rather own/run/root for:

Team A kept Hornacek, we missed the playoffs, end up with the 13th pick (a potential starter).

Team B let Horny go, got the #1 pick, added a potential superstar.

It sucks to let Horny go, but if Utah ends up with a top 3 pick, letting Horny go was the right move.
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Fair point, but you're assuming we'd be equally as good as Phoenix was this season if we'd kept onto Hornacek. Big assumption.

At this very moment, I'd take Horny for the next 5-10 years plus a mid-lottery pick in this draft over a TBD head coach and a fringe chance (~25%, whatever it is) at a top-3 pick.

But, yes. If we land Wiggins or Parker, it's hard to second guess anything that the FO has done/not done.
 
bigmike said:
Fair point, but you're assuming we'd be equally as good as Phoenix was this season if we'd kept onto Hornacek. Big assumption.

At this very moment, I'd take Horny for the next 5-10 years plus a mid-lottery pick in this draft over a TBD head coach and a fringe chance (~25%, whatever it is) at a top-3 pick.

But, yes. If we land Wiggins or Parker, it's hard to second guess anything that the FO has done/not done.
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And if the new coach ends up being every bit as good as Horny... Then good for us holding on to Ty one extra year, and getting Wiggins.
 
I believe the Jazz willingly lynched Ty to save face with fans. The integrity of the organization and these notions of loyalty, etc. are officially a thing of the past. At this point, wins and losses are the only thing differentiating the Jazz from 29 other teams.
 
AKMVP said:
Why 6.2 mil a year is outrageous? I would rather have Matthews at this price than whatever 10+ mil Hayward will command.
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An undrafted rookie coming off a good, but not spectacular year. $6.2M as essentially the 61st pick, if you will, making more than the #1 pick. Unprecented and, as I recall, every GM but Portland's was astounded by the offer.
 
Core4 said:
An undrafted rookie coming off a good, but not spectacular year. $6.2M as essentially the 61st pick, if you will, making more than the #1 pick. Unprecented and, as I recall, every GM but Portland's was astounded by the offer.
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Turned out to be a bargain. Thus KOC screwed up big time.
 
franklin said:
I believe the Jazz willingly lynched Ty to save face with fans. The integrity of the organization and these notions of loyalty, etc. are officially a thing of the past. At this point, wins and losses are the only thing differentiating the Jazz from 29 other teams.
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Ty could've walked away...
 
GVC said:
Still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early.

When Lindsey took over, the Jazz were a playoff team. The Jazz have gotten worse in each of the two seasons DL has been in charge, and haven't managed to add an impact player.

He fired a coach, and made a couple trades for guys who haven't shown much of anything yet. What are we celebrating?
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Completely disagree with this post.

A franchise is like a slow moving barge and many times the adjustments you make are not seen for quite a while.

The Jazz have gotten worse as a result of the ineptitude at the coaching position not becuase anything Lindsey has done.

I'm on the Lindsey bandwagon because he's not part of the old guard. He's a refreshing change to a franchise that has been incredibly conservative with it's decisions.
 
GVC said:
Still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early.

When Lindsey took over, the Jazz were a playoff team. The Jazz have gotten worse in each of the two seasons DL has been in charge, and haven't managed to add an impact player.

He fired a coach, and made a couple trades for guys who haven't shown much of anything yet. What are we celebrating?
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GVC, I really think you are just trying to be a pessimist, and trying to irritate the masses. Even Stoked might be conservative in his praise for the way things are going. Corbin sucks, and even that is complimentary if you evaluate his performance. His players had no confidence, no intensity, no direction, and no reason to believe that things would get better. I do think Dennis was the only important person that thought Ty had to go, and it happened. This is exponential addition through subtraction regardless of who coaches next. Add in the moves he has made to insure we would totally suck, while piling a few later assets, and controlling cap space now and looking forward, and you have to just be blatantly stupid to suggest he has done nothing. Drink some Koolaid, and jump on the bandwagon.
 
MilesDeep said:
GVC, I really think you are just trying to be a pessimist, and trying to irritate the masses. Even Stoked might be conservative in his praise for the way things are going. Corbin sucks, and even that is complimentary if you evaluate his performance. His players had no confidence, no intensity, no direction, and no reason to believe that things would get better. I do think Dennis was the only important person that thought Ty had to go, and it happened. This is exponential addition through subtraction regardless of who coaches next. Add in the moves he has made to insure we would totally suck, while piling a few later assets, and controlling cap space now and looking forward, and you have to just be blatantly stupid to suggest he has done nothing. Drink some Koolaid, and jump on the bandwagon.
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That's what I'm talkin about!


GO JAZZ. I deny you heathens and franklins!!!
 
1 good move doesnt make a man hero but consistently many good moves do. So i expect more to come, im not satisfied with just 1.
 
sepanol said:
1 good move doesnt make a man hero but consistently many good moves do. So i expect more to come, im not satisfied with just 1.
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What good move are you referring to? I've listed a half dozen.
 
VINYLONE said:
Completely disagree with this post.
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I'll take that as a compliment.

VINYLONE said:
A franchise is like a slow moving barge and many times the adjustments you make are not seen for quite a while.
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No ****.

VINYLONE said:
The Jazz have gotten worse as a result of the ineptitude at the coaching position not becuase anything Lindsey has done.
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How did the coaching get worse over the last 2 seasons? I'd argue the coaching got better over the last two seasons, but the roster got worse.

VINYLONE said:
I'm on the Lindsey bandwagon because he's not part of the old guard. He's a refreshing change to a franchise that has been incredibly conservative with it's decisions.
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Change isn't always good. Bryan Colangelo was heralded as the Raps' savior for a season or two, and then run out of town.

The early returns are fine, but it's not terribly difficult to tank with the support of ownership. Building a good team is the hard part. We've yet to see if DL can do that effectively.


MilesDeep said:
you have to just be blatantly stupid to suggest he has done nothing.
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I didn't suggest that. I only suggested that his moves are being overstated/overrated.

MilesDeep said:
Drink some Koolaid, and jump on the bandwagon.
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Quite honestly, I'd rather relive the Deron-Boozer Jazz years. Those were good teams that played an entertaining brand of basketball. I'd be surprised if the Jazz even made the playoffs in the next two seasons. Unfortunately, I actually enjoy watching quality basketball, not just watching the standings to see how well the team is tanking.
 
VINYLONE said:
Completely disagree with this post.

A franchise is like a slow moving barge and many times the adjustments you make are not seen for quite a while.

The Jazz have gotten worse as a result of the ineptitude at the coaching position not becuase anything Lindsey has done.

I'm on the Lindsey bandwagon because he's not part of the old guard. He's a refreshing change to a franchise that has been incredibly conservative with it's decisions.
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Just wanted to point out that the slow moving barge analogy supports GVCs argument about taking time to judge Lindsey. For those unfamiliar with VO, he was agreeing with GVC in his typically sarcastic way.
 
GVC said:
I'll take that as a compliment.

No ****.

How did the coaching get worse over the last 2 seasons? I'd argue the coaching got better over the last two seasons, but the roster got worse.

Change isn't always good. Bryan Colangelo was heralded as the Raps' savior for a season or two, and then run out of town.

The early returns are fine, but it's not terribly difficult to tank with the support of ownership. Building a good team is the hard part. We've yet to see if DL can do that effectively.
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Coaching got better? Well since you can't use the team's record at the end of the year or the team's overall defensive rating, what're you basing that on?

You're absolutely right. Change is definitely not always good. In these types of scenarios there's always risk involved and from what Lindsey has stated publicly in interviews, I tihnk he is able to mitigate that risk in a beneficial manner. He hasn't been perfect but I've supported most of his moves.
 
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I love what i have seen from lindsey so far.

I thought he killed in the draft last year.

Loved the trade with the warriors and the execution of the tank.
Loved that he kept corbin around for the tank and dropped his punk *** off after using him as the scapegoat.

now time for him to hit homeruns with this draft and coaching hire
 
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