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Red

Well-Known Member
So many people on the political left believe Richard Spencer is extreme right wing solely because they know he is racist AF and they believe being racist is the single central tent pole of the political right. It isn't just Red..
But this isn’t true. It’s not true that I concluded Spencer was right wing due to his racism. I concluded that in listening to him in speeches like this. Here he refers to the mainstream media as “Leftists and cucks”. At an alt right conference no less. I just would not expect someone who was politically aligned with the Left to speak derisively of Leftists. Imitating a Nazi salute likely played into my concluding he was far right as well. I also know racism can emanate from any race, not just whites. You do not know me. I guess you think you do, but you are most certainly full of ****


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk
 


LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
But this isn’t true. It’s not true that I concluded Spencer was right wing due to his racism. I concluded that in listening to him in speeches like this. Here he refers to the mainstream media as “Leftists and cucks”. At an alt right conference no less. I just would not expect someone who was politically aligned with the Left to speak derisively of Leftists. Imitating a Nazi salute likely played into my concluding he was far right as well. I also know racism can emanate from any race, not just whites. You do not know me. I guess you think you do, but you are most certainly full of ****


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

I think what is happening with some of these idiots is they are just saying **** to get a rise out of people, whatever that **** needs to be. They have no real convictions, just spout whatever vomitus they need to in order to keep people enraged, regardless of where that outrage comes from, left or right, they mostly don't give a ****. We reward the purely sensationalistic and outrageous way more than we reward anyone with a reasoned approach to any topic. It is what we as a society have fomented through where we spend our time attention and money.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
I think what is happening with some of these idiots is they are just saying **** to get a rise out of people, whatever that **** needs to be. They have no real convictions, just spout whatever vomitus they need to in order to keep people enraged, regardless of where that outrage comes from, left or right, they mostly don't give a ****.
It's also a question of pushing the Overton window, and keeping people on the defensive. Not to mention the old trick of accusing others of your own faults.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
This single sentence, in and of itself, undercuts every point you have tried to make in this thread. It is so full of egnorance (the marriage of ego to arrogance first coind to describe Dr. Egnor), and it shows you don't understand these women and you don't really care to.
Who the hell understands anyone, or wants to. If they are on your team, they can do no wrong. If they aren't, they can do no wrong.

You're pretty much unwilling to break things out on the facts alone. It's tribalism, intellectual tribalism, every bit as bad as any kind of racism.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I really just don't like intellectuals who labor all that hard to make their case in politics. People are not that simple, or that complicated. The world over, the great political rhetoric just isn't relevant.

Very few people have no friends or relatives that are not of different races. Very few people work up any special thinking otherize their immediate acquaintances. Well, maybe except local niches with some kind of historic contention. In the Philippines I saw some of that. Little camps separated by a river, say, who'd tell you how disgusting the people on the other side were, for some reason. You could hardly see a shade of color difference, or facial characteristic difference, but they could in an instant.

people on government payroll lolling in their school office thinking about the big wide world, looking for grand issues and political fodder just seem out of touch.

People generally get along with one another just fine, until some political wonk tries to make trouble.

And when the wonks get out and beat the bushes about something, it should not be any great surprise if a nutjob comes outta the bushes to do something the wonks triggered.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
Who the hell understands anyone, or wants to. If they are on your team, they can do no wrong. If they aren't, they can do no wrong.
Not something I would say or think. I'm a skeptic, and don't believe in perfection, heroes, or complete agreement.

You're pretty much unwilling to break things out on the facts alone.
:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's tribalism, intellectual tribalism, every bit as bad as any kind of racism.
Since I don't create poisonous neighborhoods, send anyone to prison, nor provide inferior medical care, nothing I say or do can be as bad as everyday racism.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
I really just don't like intellectuals who labor all that hard to make their case in politics.
Considering the enormous volume of posts you make in political topics, is this self-hatred?

people on government payroll lolling in their school office thinking about the big wide world, looking for grand issues and political fodder just seem out of touch.
You're nothing if not anti-intellectual.

People generally get along with one another just fine, until some political wonk tries to make trouble.
Real life says otherwise.
 

Al-O-Meter

Well-Known Member
But this isn’t true. It’s not true that I concluded Spencer was right wing due to his racism. I concluded that in listening to him in speeches like this. Here he refers to the mainstream media as “Leftists and cucks”. At an alt right conference no less. I just would not expect someone who was politically aligned with the Left to speak derisively of Leftists. Imitating a Nazi salute likely played into my concluding he was far right as well. I also know racism can emanate from any race, not just whites. You do not know me.
I know you pretty well. Be honest. Did you actually listen to that speech or did you find a safe source like The Atlantic who would reaffirm what you already believe and spoon feed you bits out of context to show you how correct you were? There was nothing in any of those clips that indicated how Richard Spencer thinks about fiscal policy, or a woman's right to choose, or social safety nets, or nearly any topic that differentiates right from left.

If you want to know where Richard Spencer, the Alt-Right, and the eco-fascist socialists who kill people in Buffalo stand on the political spectrum, here it is in his own words during an unedited Q&A split into 3 parts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlOv3BXSyJM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhicdpt9Q0U


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSefByrjXzY


If you wanted the political compass stuff, pay particular attention to part 2 where you get to hear:
  • @3:25 – Support for environmentalism and anger at climate change denial
  • @3:45 – Wants massive expansion of public transportation
  • @4:25 – Wants total student loan forgiveness
  • @5:05 – Wants Medicare-4-All
All of this was from back when he was supporting Trump, just a handful of months after the speech the Atlantic cut up to feed you. But Red, I know you wont watch any of it because it is not safe. It won't reaffirm your preheld beliefs. Quite the opposite. You'll find out your trusted sources maybe didn't deserve as much trust as you gave them. Richard Spencer is a POS racist but he isn't a right wing POS racist even if he did vote for Trump in one election before returning to form and voting straight democrat. You won't watch it and you won't change your opinion, and I know that because I do know you pretty well.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
I know you pretty well. Be honest. Did you actually listen to that speech or did you find a safe source like The Atlantic who would reaffirm what you already believe and spoon feed you bits out of context to show you how correct you were? There was nothing in any of those clips that indicated how Richard Spencer thinks about fiscal policy, or a woman's right to choose, or social safety nets, or nearly any topic that differentiates right from left.

If you want to know where Richard Spencer, the Alt-Right, and the eco-fascist socialists who kill people in Buffalo stand on the political spectrum, here it is in his own words during an unedited Q&A split into 3 parts:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlOv3BXSyJM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhicdpt9Q0U


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSefByrjXzY


If you wanted the political compass stuff, pay particular attention to part 2 where you get to hear:
  • @3:25 – Support for environmentalism and anger at climate change denial
  • @3:45 – Wants massive expansion of public transportation
  • @4:25 – Wants total student loan forgiveness
  • @5:05 – Wants Medicare-4-All
All of this was from back when he was supporting Trump, just a handful of months after the speech the Atlantic cut up to feed you. But Red, I know you wont watch any of it because it is not safe. It won't reaffirm your preheld beliefs. Quite the opposite. You'll find out your trusted sources maybe didn't deserve as much trust as you gave them. Richard Spencer is a POS racist but he isn't a right wing POS racist even if he did vote for Trump in one election before returning to form and voting straight democrat. You won't watch it and you won't change your opinion, and I know that because I do know you pretty well.

I recall that speech at the time. I thought there was a transcript, but I could not find it last night, so just went with that snippet.

But, no, you don’t know me or my history at all. You don’t know a thing about Irish street gangs, and white neighborhoods abutting black neighborhoods, nothing about the race riots in Providence, nothing about my own grappling with racism in my youth. There are still streets I would never walk down in Providence at night. Because they are black neighborhoods, and I’m not stupid or eager to take risks. I in fact wonder at times how racist am I in simply avoiding black neighborhoods. Most of those Irish friends are still likely Democratic supporters, but how one was raised, and the experiences of growing up in certain neighborhoods likely still conditions their views of race. Me, I just want everyone to get along, I want all the hate and anger to stop.

Nor have I ever demonized half the people in this country, as you also stated is taking place in this thread. When Joe Bagadonuts suggested I start a thread discussing differences between liberals and conservatives that looked at possible biological differences in the brain, I did, but few were interested at the time, and the thread went nowhere as I recall. But I did that because I thought it was very important to at least try to bridge the gap, and that meant looking anywhere where there might exist insights that would help explain why conservatives felt as they did, why liberals felt as they did. I still believe there is insight in looking at such studies. Conservatives more attune to threats, liberals more comfortable with change. I am not the one way, inflexible ideologue you think I am. My closest friend is a Trump supporter. My wife leans very strongly right. He’s still my friend, and I would never stop loving my wife, despite our extreme political differences. It hurts at times, and all I want for my country is the ability to compromise again, to talk again, to tamp down the culture wars that are tearing us apart. I am not someone standing on one side of our political divide, demonizing and full of hate for the other side.

Instead, I hate Donald Trump. I hated his divisive speech. I hated the fact he was the first president in my lifetime who refused to reach out to all those millions of Americans who did not vote for him, and make some effort, any effort, to act like a president for all Americans. I hated him because of his inconceivable divisive stances, when it was the polar opposite we needed. And of course I would hate to see a repeat of all that.

But I don’t hate many of his followers, nor am I an urban liberal hating all the rural reactionary hicks. I put it that way, but I don’t really feel that is an appropriate way to see myself or rural America. I spent my summers in my preteen youth living among Swamp Yankees still living in the 19th century, would not trade those memories for the world. I got to know both urban and rural America. I just recognize, having been a student of American history for my whole life, that our culture wars pivot on an urban/rural fulcrum, something that in fact has been there since colonial times. And understanding that, like understanding the differences in the brains of liberals and conservatives, can help illuminate how we got to a very ugly and dangerous place in our nation’s history. I want to understand all of this better. Because I am not a leftist ideologue, determined to demonize and hate those who differ from me politically or culturally.

You don’t know me. You don’t know that I examine my own beliefs all the time. I listen to my friend, and my wife, together, asking me, astonishment in their voices, why in the world do I believe what I believe. I feel I am smack dab in the middle of the tensions, the forces rendering our social fabric, and I struggle to understand how to find a way forward, for myself, my friends and family, my country.

My own experiences, esp. right now, at this time in my life, feels like a great test for me. You see, I believe life is a morality play. I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. I think I should be grateful I am being so tested, with someone with strongly held beliefs seemingly the opposite of mine living with me. I feel this is a test and love is far stronger than hate. It’s very painful in fact, but this is a morality play, and I want to do the right thing. Anger is a poison, in one’s personal life, and in the body politic. I still have work to do in that area, the anger comes way too easy at times. You think I am an inflexible ideologue on the far left. Well, yeah, on most things and issues I do lean that way. But I would embrace compromise in our body politic in a heartbeat, because politics should be the art of compromise. And if, as I believe, we are spiritual beings on a human journey, we have a responsibility to learn this, no matter how long it takes. History would certainly suggest my belief is delusional and foolish to the extreme, but it is my choice to act as if that belief is 100% true. I try. I fail daily, but I try.

You think I am an ideologue, yet the very reason I stated that when difficulties communicating reach this level, I feel I wish I could sit down with someone like you, is to do away with impressions born of anonymous Internet forums. I am in fact a very open person, and no, you really do not know me….
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I recall that speech at the time. I thought there was a transcript, but I could not find it last night, so just went with that snippet.

But, no, you don’t know me or my history at all. You don’t know a thing about Irish street gangs, and white neighborhoods abutting black neighborhoods, nothing about the race riots in Providence, nothing about my own grappling with racism in my youth. There are still streets I would never walk down in Providence at night. Because they are black neighborhoods, and I’m not stupid or eager to take risks. I in fact wonder at times how racist am I in simply avoiding black neighborhoods. Most of those Irish friends are still likely Democratic supporters, but how one was raised, and the experiences of growing up in certain neighborhoods likely still conditions their views of race. Me, I just want everyone to get along, I want all the hate and anger to stop.

Nor have I ever demonized half the people in this country, as you also stated is taking place in this thread. When Joe Bagadonuts suggested I start a thread discussing differences between liberals and conservatives that looked at possible biological differences in the brain, I did, but few were interested at the time, and the thread went nowhere as I recall. But I did that because I thought it was very important to at least try to bridge the gap, and that meant looking anywhere where there might exist insights that would help explain why conservatives felt as they did, why liberals felt as they did. I still believe there is insight in looking at such studies. Conservatives more attune to threats, liberals more comfortable with change. I am not the one way, inflexible ideologue you think I am. My closest friend is a Trump supporter. My wife leans strongly right. He’s still my friend, and I would never stop loving my wife, despite our extreme political differences. It hurts at times, and all I want for my country is the ability to compromise again, to talk again, to tamp down the culture wars that are tearing us apart. I am not someone standing on one side of our political divide, demonizing and full of hate for the other side.

Instead, I hate Donald Trump. I hated his divisive speech. I hated the fact he was the first president in my lifetime who refused to reach out to all those millions of Americans who did not vote for him, and make some effort, any effort, to act like a president for all Americans. I hated him because of his inconceivable divisive stances, when it was the polar opposite we needed. And of course I would hate to see a repeat of all that.

You don’t know me. You don’t know that I examine my own beliefs all the time. I listen to my friend, and my wife, together, asking me, astonishment in their voices, why in the world do I believe what I believe. I feel I am smack dab in the middle of the tensions, the forces rendering our social fabric, and I struggle to understand how to find a way forward, for myself, my friends and family, my country. My own experiences, esp. right now, at this time in my life, feels like a great test for me. You see, I believe life is a morality play. I believe we are spiritual beings on a human journey. I think I should be grateful I am being so tested, with someone with strongly held beliefs seemingly the opposite of mine living with me. I feel this is a test and love is far stronger than hate. That anger is a poison, in one’s personal,life, and in the body politic. You think I am an inflexible ideologue on the far left. Well, yeah, on most things I things and issues I do lean that way. But I would embrace compromise in our body politic, because politics should be the art of compromise.

You think I am an ideologue, yet the very reason I stated that when difficulties communicating reach this level, I feel I wish I could sit down with someone like you to do away with impressions born of anonymous Internet forums. I am in fact a very open person, and no, you really do not know me….
You’re arguing with someone who has no interest in who you are or what you stand for. He doesn’t want to engage in honest debate. He lies incessantly to be contrarian. He seeks out and receives negative attention. You can write to whoever you want but imo we’d all be better off if we ignored these trolls. They’d go bother other boards and social media groups if they weren’t given the attention here.
 


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