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China's social credit system

Speaking of taxes....





This is fundamentally an ideological argument that evades actual understanding of ownership. While there are quite a few privately-held corporations, the ones you generally recognize as "huge" are not owned by a few rich dudes/dudettes, but by millions of ordinary Americans including 401(k) and other retirement plans. Furthermore, they are large employers with some of the more competitive compensation packages.

Realities like this essentially make the Corporate Tax Evasion bogeyman a hoax. Business taxes are always...... always..... paid by the consumers in the form of higher prices and whatever retained profits increase shareholder equity, which is generally quite spread out among ordinary people.

Stock Market performance is often bragged about by Presidents, though few have had so much to brag about than Trump, though it's mostly due to him just not being such a damn Marxist as Obama, Hillary, or the delusional dems of today. But even Obama was not a genuine Marxist. He was overtly hypocritical on that claim. He was a fascist, he did everything to control everyone in the picture and make damn sure nobody told the truth about him. He threatened journalists, and actually set his agenicies, including regulatory agencies and the intelligence agencies to make sure he was the big damn rooster in the coop.

He was corrupt as hell. He bragged about how he was going to kill King Coal. While he was overtly acting to destroy coal mines and coal power plants, and everyone was in a panic to sell, he and his insider clique were buying huge quantities of the stock. This is a time-honored tactic in government officials, one of their many cash cow operations that enrich the powerful and powerfully-connected politicos. In investor terms is a version of reverse "Pump and Dump", where market manipulation is the key to insider wealth.

Our congressmen...... our Representatives and Senators..... get very rich on their bills that unevenly affect markets of all kinds. Everyone goes out to buy stocks that will be favorably impacted by upcoming legislation, and they short the stocks that look to be losers. Of course, most of them use family members to do the buying and selling so it doesn't show on their own tax records....

And besides that, we have scores of Bidens with their gunnysack boys Hunter who clean up the payola everywhere they go in this damn world, winking and nodding at the interested folks who can slip them some cash somehow.

And then we get shitass lawyers who go around explaining how legal and honorable it is for every corporation to have some politically-connected boys on their boards, like Hunter and Burisma, while dropping names in our bureaucracies doing some investigation about their corrupt practices. Of course our agencies always look the other way after the investigators get a little consideration.

This is how fascism works, at it's finest...... before the honchos actually get the power to stuff deplorable and troublesome folks into some damn gas ovens.

China is today our least accountable fascist states, where the few honchos actually have the greatest control and the greatest power to profit from people's bone-grinding labor. Russia is the second most concentrated political manipulation zone. Places like Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela are very bad too, as is Iran.

Not even funny we have people who don't understand where the socialist/fascist do-gooders are really going to take us.
 
1) It's a thing that some governments do,
2) it's almost always a bad idea, and
3) asset seizure doe not meet the definition of tax you posted.



Since the government at that point owns the company, it's not a tax.



That point being somewhere over 80% of income at the highest margins.



I know that's how you feel. What you lack is facts to back up your feelings.
We completely disagree on point #3 which makes the rest of the conversation an exercise in futility. I don't know where you're getting your 80% number but the Wall Street Journal recently published an analysis that shows Warren's proposals result in a total tax over 100% at the highest margins.
 
That depends upon whose hands, and what their actual needs are. Money put in the hands of impoverished people overwhelmingly goes to things like rent, food, clothing, etc.

Money collected by government and put in the hands of "impoverished" people never really solves their problems. It is like the Indian Reservation system when we rounded up the horsemen of the Plains who could kill some buffalo and make a fine winter of it, with skins for tents and clothes. First of all we promoted the slaughter of the vast buffalo herds to destroy their way of life. Then we put them up in little shacks on the praires, and gave them starvation on little barrels of moldy corn. You should really read some Sonnie Johnson on how "progressives" broke the backs of black businessmen and broke up black families, and made people miserably dependent on guvmint handouts, broke down their education and their pride.

The claim stands. When people work for what they have, they have power. The power to negotiate prices for their goods, the power of choice in what they buy. And they always do a helluva lot better than any bureaucrat "caring" for them.

Socialism is inherently evil. It is a social evil, but it is a greater evil than greed. Blackstone wrote that the right to property is the fundamental human right all other rights are derived from. A man who can own a cow has a chance to care for it, and benefit from it, and can sustain his own life. Ownership is basically the essence of the Right to Life. Anyone who claims the "moral" authority to take property from a human is claiming the right to kill that human.

Nobody on God's green earth has that kind of real "moral authority". And, well, that's why "God" can't be allowed as a placeholder for some kind of absolute higher authority. The socialist has to claim all the authority there is..... along with all the property there is.... for himself. And it always will slide downhill to reveal the socialist/fascist as the murdering thug he really is. Of course, the evil among us have used "God" to claim the same absolute authority for themselves. Which is why freedom of belief, freedom of conscience, and the other human rights in our constitutional system are essential to maintain our freedom.

I don't care if anyone else can be greedy, so long as I have the right to do what I can with my own time, energy, and stuff. I will see that I live well enough.
 
Money collected by government and put in the hands of "impoverished" people never really solves their problems.

It solved a lot of problems for my mother, and for me, when we needed it.

It is like the Indian Reservation system when we rounded up the horsemen of the Plains...

I'm impressed by your ability to simultaneously insult and diminish both the poor and First Nation's people while blathering on ignorantly about what government assistance can do. Truly horrible.

You should really read some Sonnie Johnson ...

You forget, I already read her. Yes, she does tell you what you want to hear. No, I'm neither persuaded nor impressed.
 
We completely disagree on point #3 which makes the rest of the conversation an exercise in futility.

Fine. Please point to a country that, through high income taxes on the wealthy that were not in the form of asset seizures, thereby failed.

I don't know where you're getting your 80% number but the Wall Street Journal recently published an analysis that shows Warren's proposals result in a total tax over 100% at the highest margins.

Sure it did. The article is behind a paywall, so I have no idea what they base this on. Care to provide some proof?
 
Fine. Please point to a country that, through high income taxes on the wealthy that were not in the form of asset seizures, thereby failed.



Sure it did. The article is behind a paywall, so I have no idea what they base this on. Care to provide some proof?
You could have easily found this yourself if you had wanted to. There are numerous sources available. Here's one:
https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-warrens-tax-plans-could-bring-rates-over-100-percent/

If Warren were to institute her plans there would be a mass exodus of American capital, the revenues she is projecting would fall far, far short of plans, and the economy would go into the tank. None of this is difficult to predict. If Warren is the nominee I predict that a lot of people who despise Trump will find themselves voting for him.
 
You could have easily found this yourself if you had wanted to. There are numerous sources available. Here's one:
https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-warrens-tax-plans-could-bring-rates-over-100-percent/

If Warren were to institute her plans there would be a mass exodus of American capital, the revenues she is projecting would fall far, far short of plans, and the economy would go into the tank. None of this is difficult to predict. If Warren is the nominee I predict that a lot of people who despise Trump will find themselves voting for him.
If Warren were elected do you believe that she would be able to enact all her plans into law? Do you think Congress would do her bidding?

I don't.

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You could have easily found this yourself if you had wanted to. There are numerous sources available. Here's one:
https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-warrens-tax-plans-could-bring-rates-over-100-percent/
https://taxfoundation.org/elizabeth-warrens-tax-plans-could-bring-rates-over-100-percent/

I read it. While it claims Rihard Rubin found a way to push the tax rate over 100%, this article did not present those numbers.

Also, the phrase "Let’s assume over the next 10 years that the $48.7 million in income grows at an annual rate of 7 percent." was dishonest, because was not income, it was the amount that remained after taxes.

Further, there was no discussion at all of the foundations, company shells, tax-reducing opportunities, and various other ways that billionaires use today to shelter their taxes. None of them will even be paying 60%, much less over 90%.

If Warren were to institute her plans there would be a mass exodus of American capital,

Because there are so many other places in the world where you could earn that $150 million, safely, to begin with? Money follows opportunity.

None of this is difficult to predict. If Warren is the nominee I predict that a lot of people who despise Trump will find themselves voting for him.

People do love their money.
 
So you would vote for her because you believe that Congress would stop her from implementing the plans that she promised in order to get elected?
I believe that any and all candidates will have the vast majority of their plans they promised not come to fruition.
Mexico was gonna pay for the wall. Hillary was gonna be locked up. The swamp was gonna be drained. And whatnot.

I would vote for her first and foremost cause she ain't Trump. After that I would look at how she carries herself, if she seems smart, compassionate, well spoken. Do I like her as a human. Does she seem to want to make things better for the people who need the most help or does she want to make things better for the people who need help the least.
All of those things. I'm certainly not scared that all the rich folk are gonna bounce if she gets elected. Simply ain't gonna happen bro

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It solved a lot of problems for my mother, and for me, when we needed it.

OK, so that is why you never got a real job? I mean where you thought up the plan, started it up, and made it pay. My parents were both of the elitist/management class. They just didn't believe people could actually do better if left to their own intelligence. No, being a teacher in a socialist paradigm isn't exactly "teaching" so much as propagandizing.



I'm impressed by your ability to simultaneously insult and diminish both the poor and First Nation's people while blathering on ignorantly about what government assistance can do. Truly horrible.

I didn't insult anyone. Except government officials who promoted the war on the native Americans, who ran them down where ever they tried to flee, who never lived up to treaty promises, and who were responsible for the genocidal tribal policies that for many years did not even give them a vote.

Government assistance is crippling to initiative. You got how many rules about what you can earn and what you must do? No self-respecting cave man would want guvmint cheese.



You forget, I already read her. Yes, she does tell you what you want to hear. No, I'm neither persuaded nor impressed.

OK. you say so. Clearly you're not a quick study. I still don't think I can very completely describe her in any sense. She is religious. She is smart. She loves to see "her people" make it in spite of whatever difficulties they face. She is a "can-do" sort who really doesn't want bureaucrats handing out cheese, however it is made. She will make her own, her own way. I respect that.

Don't be confused. If you care for my response to each statment I'll try to put it next to your relevant remarks.

I don't really think you know what an insult is. My wife says people who dish it out straight are not insulting you, because they expect you to be smarter than that.
 
OK. you say so. Clearly you're not a quick study. I still don't think I can very completely describe her in any sense. She is religious. She is smart. She loves to see "her people" make it in spite of whatever difficulties they face. She is a "can-do" sort who really doesn't want bureaucrats handing out cheese, however it is made. She will make her own, her own way. I respect that.

Don't be confused. If you care for my response to each statment I'll try to put it next to your relevant remarks.

I don't really think you know what an insult is. My wife says people who dish it out straight are not insulting you, because they expect you to be smarter than that.

For her sake, I hope your wife’s deaf.
 
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