Colorado Shooting




Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
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The Dems ended any chance of tighter gun restrictions when they decided to start promoting riots. They wanted a 3rd world country, and will have it soon.
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MVP

Well-Known Member
Nevermind idiot who shot her own son.... but this is mind boggling to me - "The state’s governor Greg Abbott is expected to sign the bill HB 1927, nicknamed ‘Constitutional Carry’, which will make it easier for residents to purchase a handgun. It’ll remove the need for a license to own a firearm therefore cut out training, background checks and the exchange of personal information".
 

Gameface

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Nevermind idiot who shot her own son.... but this is mind boggling to me - "The state’s governor Greg Abbott is expected to sign the bill HB 1927, nicknamed ‘Constitutional Carry’, which will make it easier for residents to purchase a handgun. It’ll remove the need for a license to own a firearm therefore cut out training, background checks and the exchange of personal information".
There is some false info there. Requiring a license to buy a gun is completely separate from background checks.

There are no license or registration requirements in Utah but all commercial gun sales require a background check. It's the instant kind that takes 10 or so min on a weekday and maybe 30min on a weekend. But background checks are done.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
There is some false info there. Requiring a license to buy a gun is completely separate from background checks.

There are no license or registration requirements in Utah but all commercial gun sales require a background check. It's the instant kind that takes 10 or so min on a weekday and maybe 30min on a weekend. But background checks are done.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t utah require background checks and/or training to carry a year or two ago? It wasn’t until just recently when Utah’s legislature altered the process.
 

Gameface

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t utah require background checks and/or training to carry a year or two ago? It wasn’t until just recently when Utah’s legislature altered the process.
Yeah. It's the wild wild west now.
 

bigb

Free at last!!!
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t utah require background checks and/or training to carry a year or two ago? It wasn’t until just recently when Utah’s legislature altered the process.

To carry CONCEALED. Utah has been an open carry state for a long time. I dislike the idea of doing away with the “training” requirement. The argument for it was “if a person is open carrying and their jacket slips over it, they’ve become illegal”. Stupid.


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Gameface

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To carry CONCEALED. Utah has been an open carry state for a long time. I dislike the idea of doing away with the “training” requirement. The argument for it was “if a person is open carrying and their jacket slips over it, they’ve become illegal”. Stupid.


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I agree. I'm all for legal carry laws, but there's already a lot of gray area where two people who are legally carrying can both have a valid legal case for shooting each other. The training at least let people know some of the basic limitations on the use of lethal force, brandishing, etc..

I dislike that the gun rights movement is firmly moving away from responsibility and discipline and towards a no holds barred approach to gun legislation.

I say that as someone who opposes "assault rifle" bans. I oppose bans on greater than 10 round magazines. I oppose bans on cosmetic features like flash suppressors, bull pup fore grips, collapsible stocks, etc..

I want the gun rights community to embrace responsibility and discipline and fight hard to hold people accountable for the misuse of firearms. People like that couple in the gated community who brandished weapons at protesters who were simply passing through. They should have been condemned by the gun rights community, but they are being held up as positive examples. The murder kid who went to a protest out of state with his AR-15 and backed himself into a corner until he had no other option but to shoot his way out. If the gun rights community stands with those people then I'll support gun rights in my own way while I oppose the greater gun rights movement. That's not what gun rights mean to me.
 

bigb

Free at last!!!
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I agree. I'm all for legal carry laws, but there's already a lot of gray area where two people who are legally carrying can both have a valid legal case for shooting each other. The training at least let people know some of the basic limitations on the use of lethal force, brandishing, etc..

I dislike that the gun rights movement is firmly moving away from responsibility and discipline and towards a no holds barred approach to gun legislation.

I say that as someone who opposes "assault rifle" bans. I oppose bans on greater than 10 round magazines. I oppose bans on cosmetic features like flash suppressors, bull pup fore grips, collapsible stocks, etc..

I want the gun rights community to embrace responsibility and discipline and fight hard to hold people accountable for the misuse of firearms. People like that couple in the gated community who brandished weapons at protesters who were simply passing through. They should have been condemned by the gun rights community, but they are being held up as positive examples. The murder kid who went to a protest out of state with his AR-15 and backed himself into a corner until he had no other option but to shoot his way out. If the gun rights community stands with those people then I'll support gun rights in my own way while I oppose the greater gun rights movement. That's not what gun rights mean to me.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.


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Al-O-Meter

Active Member
Yeah. It's the wild wild west now.
That isn’t the wild west. In Utah the guns have serial numbers, waiting periods, background checks, and one handgun-per-month purchase limits.

California is the wild west. In California the gun laws are so restrictive the real waiting period is however long it takes you to complete the machining on the 80% blank. There currently aren’t any background checks for ghost guns, nor purchase limits. Even red flag laws don’t include ghost guns although that is soon to change. There typically aren’t any serial numbers on ghost guns.

It is California law that you have register ghost guns and get a serial number from the California government which is then supposed to be put on the ghost gun. So called “assault weapons” also have to be registered with the state per the law. Of the estimated M-M-Millions of ghost guns and assault weapons in California, by the legal deadline to register only 6,213 owners had registered a total of 13,519 guns.

I know that ghost gun kits can be purchased in Utah and that some enthusiasts do so, but in California the number of no-serial number ghost guns is crazy. Last year 41% of guns seized by law enforcement in Southern California were ghost guns.

Although they are cracking down on it now, there were machine shops that rented time on CNC machines preprogrammed with tool path code and an aluminum block secured to the working table. It was of course your choice to push the ‘go’ button to make whatever the previous person made with their aluminum block before they accidently left the code in the machine. Afterwards there were build parties to attach interesting off-the-shelf bits and pieces to whatever you decided to make on the CNC machine.
 

Gameface

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That isn’t the wild west. In Utah the guns have serial numbers, waiting periods, background checks, and one handgun-per-month purchase limits.

California is the wild west. In California the gun laws are so restrictive the real waiting period is however long it takes you to complete the machining on the 80% blank. There currently aren’t any background checks for ghost guns, nor purchase limits. Even red flag laws don’t include ghost guns although that is soon to change. There typically aren’t any serial numbers on ghost guns.

It is California law that you have register ghost guns and get a serial number from the California government which is then supposed to be put on the ghost gun. So called “assault weapons” also have to be registered with the state per the law. Of the estimated M-M-Millions of ghost guns and assault weapons in California, by the legal deadline to register only 6,213 owners had registered a total of 13,519 guns.

I know that ghost gun kits can be purchased in Utah and that some enthusiasts do so, but in California the number of no-serial number ghost guns is crazy. Last year 41% of guns seized by law enforcement in Southern California were ghost guns.

Although they are cracking down on it now, there were machine shops that rented time on CNC machines preprogrammed with tool path code and an aluminum block secured to the working table. It was of course your choice to push the ‘go’ button to make whatever the previous person made with their aluminum block before they accidently left the code in the machine. Afterwards there were build parties to attach interesting off-the-shelf bits and pieces to whatever you decided to make on the CNC machine.
Well, maybe this situation will improve now that the California "AWB" has been struck down. Maybe not as it might not stand up to appeal.

But what I mean by wild west is the tremendous ambiguity in when it's okay to brandish your concealed weapon and when it's okay to fire it at another person.

There was a situation several years ago where there was a group of three teenage girls walking around the neighborhood of one of the girls. An overactive neighborhood watch member who took his legal concealed weapon on his neighborhood watch patrols decided that this group of teenage girls was suspicious. Now he didn't need to call the police, because he was clearly capable of handling his own business. So he followed the girls in his vehicle. The girls, understandably, were creeped out that some old dude was following them around the neighborhood. So they skedaddled to one of their houses where they informed one of the girl's father that they were being stalked by some creepy guy. Well, this dad is also a CCW holder. So what does he do? He straps up and goes out to confront the creep who's following teenage girls around the neighborhood. The neighborhood watch guy sees this guy coming and "feels threatened" so he pulls his concealed gun. Dad see the guy pull his gun so he pulls his own gun.

Wild west shootout ensues. I believe only one of these men was injured, but they could have both died.

Who was justified and who was not justified?

We need clarification so that we do not have situations where two legally armed citizens both have justification to kill each other. To remove licensing, training and background checks you make this situation much much much more unpredictable.
 

Al-O-Meter

Active Member
Wild west shootout ensues. I believe only one of these men was injured, but they could have both died.

Who was justified and who was not justified?

We need clarification so that we do not have situations where two legally armed citizens both have justification to kill each other. To remove licensing, training and background checks you make this situation much much much more unpredictable.
To the point of passing societal gun control legislation, I’d say ‘Shooter A’ or ‘Shooter B’ being more at fault in that unfortunate event is irrelevant. Self Defense is a natural right, meaning it preexists government. Buffalo with no government at all are allowed to defend themselves and their calves against lions (and alligators). Government does not give one the right to self defense.

When government tries to take away that right to self defense, how Californians have reacted shows that otherwise good, law abiding people will become criminals rather than surrender that natural right. If gun control legislation worked then those areas with the strictest gun control laws would be the most peaceful. In reality we see the exact opposite.

I’m all for education. I just think the best place for education is in a school. Schools have Sex Ed and Drivers Ed. Neither of those is even a right.
 

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