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Colorado Shooting


Eminence

Well-Known Member
So from a legislation perspective, do you use cosmetic features as a basis for regulation? Model numbers (that are chosen largely based on cosmetic features)?

An even less conservative supreme court upheld the right of people to own semi-auto handguns as a means of self defense. If you want new gun regulations to stand up to legal challenge you're gonna need to be on some pretty solid footing.

I mean, this entire argument boils down to - conservatives don't want gun control and have the political power to prevent it from happening.

In your particular example, well a .223 is quite a bit different than a .22, that'd be one place to start (the pistol grips, more compact build are also factors in terms of actual effectiveness in these settings).
 


LogGrad98

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Some of the figures here show gun death rates per 100,000 for the states.


I set all the mass shootings against the state's current population and the top of the list per 100k pop was interesting. The top 5 were, in order as below. Interesting to note that DC had 1 only. Colorado and Washington with 7 each had the highest with multiple events, and it wasn't very close. Florida was 8th by this measure and California was 10th.

District of Columbia
Colorado
Washington
Wisconsin
Connecticut
 

fishonjazz

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So from a legislation perspective, do you use cosmetic features as a basis for regulation? Model numbers (that are chosen largely based on cosmetic features)?

An even less conservative supreme court upheld the right of people to own semi-auto handguns as a means of self defense. If you want new gun regulations to stand up to legal challenge you're gonna need to be on some pretty solid footing.
I won't pretend to think that I have any answers to the issue. My point is only that even though those two guns are similar in a practical sense they are very very different due to the mentality that comes with them.

Kinda like a lab and pitbull are similar. Both can bite. Both eat and poop. Both can hurt or kill someone. But often times a person is getting a pitbull due to a certain mentality that the person getting the lab doesn't have. Because having a pitbull makes a certain type of person feel a certain type of way.

Too bad we can't just eliminate that kind of mentality.

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Beantown

Well-Known Member
Knock on wood outside of Trolley Sq this hasn't been a huge issue in Utah. But it's all around us. Some of the biggest shootings in history are our neighbors with Colorado and Las Vegas. At some point, it will happen here again. Such a scary thought when you have kids in school.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Eliminate the 2nd one and they will start using the first one. Yes, they want to use the second one because it makes them feel "badass", but any will do in a pinch I imagine. If you are set on shooting up a supermarket I imagine anything you can get that fires bullets will be just fine.

Also, I haven't seen anything on it yet, but have they released what the shooter used in this shooting? I haven't dug very deep either, just read a couple articles on yahoo.
I looked and couldn't find a description of the shooting weopon from any source, official or unofficial, yet.

Ruger has a factory in Arizona that has been going at capacity for a long time. I don't know what all they make, but hunting rifles like the one pictured above are a very large part of the sales, so far as I know. Pretty cheap Ruger 0.22 rifle that takes the clip, 10 or more depending on the clip. I know some people who have the AR 15 and have handled one. The argument there is they are light and easy to fire, and an excellent choice for women because of no kickback. They use I think a .223 round, just a little bigger than the 0.22.

The people I know who hunt deer use a .306 rifle. Some use a 0.270 rifle I think, but I know nothing about deer hunting, really. I've bagged several with my car, and even an Elk once. VERY high caliber weapon there, and when they come running at you, there's no way to miss unless you're driving under 50mph. If you're driving forty, or a Semi, you live and maybe even drive away to the collision repair shop.

I don't think anyone used a 0.22 or .223 for deer hunting, but I'm not a hunter. My vet was helping me with a cow several years ago, and coyotes were a problem. I used a 0.22 to scare a coyote away, and the the vet looked at me like I was nuts, then scolded me , telling me it would not kill a coyote, and wounding a dog is just cruel.
I replied that I always shoot for the head, if I'm not just chasing the dog away, and just don't miss. I have to confess, I was trying many years ago to run s herd of antelope outta my alfalfa, when I was a real know-nothing newb in the desert. I had found my way outta the lab and discovered air and sunshine, so I bought the farm, and one of those Ruger 0.22 rifles. So I was clear across the field, over a quarter mile away, and I just sorta aimed way high over the herd and shot. I heard a strange thud, and the herd ran off. I went over to see what had made that thud, and found an antelope dead. Bullet through the heart. My wolf "dog" got happy that day. So that's my authority. You have to shoot something in the head or the heart to kill with a 0.22, pretty much. Soldiers don't use 0.22 or 0.223. "Military-style" and "0.223" don't belong in the same line of print. They are for rabbits. Well, cans and rabbits. And for rocks if you want to start a grass wildfire and just watch the mountain burn in 5 minutes.


But this is what people are buying for self-protection and to scare off the government troops if they come knocking to get your guns. I think they only scare democrats and bureaucrats, but some guvmint know-nothings like Biden and Pelosi think they are more scary than peasants' pitchforks.

If we ban guns, the peasants will still have pitchforks, pikes, rocks, high-velocity tin can cars, clubs, hammers, etc. These are all more lethal than 0.223 guns. If they are not conservatives, they will also have bricks and bottles with rags and gasoline Also more lethal than a 0.223 gun.. Well, in a pinch, a broken bottle without the rag or gasoline, still more lethal. And the political class will never have anything at all unless they can incite the military against the peasants. And that's a "neener neener neener you're a beaner beaner beaner" sort of probability in America. That's why the Biden Administration is trying to cull all the Americans outta our military forces. There's a reason Biden wants those kids from Yemen coming flooding across our border. Mere Mexicans or Central Americans, however indoctrinated in Marxism and gathered and coached and marched by Marxists backed by Gates or Soros big bucks to our border..... once they're here, they're gonna become real Americans. Yah, it takes ten years, but they will become Republicans.

That's why we MUST have our leaders behind razor wire fences.

And that's why we MUST have election fraud in the hands of politicians. Without it, the Bidens and Pelosi's don't stand a chance.

But hey, even putting our "elected" officials behind protective fences is just insane when they are already so old they stumble on the stairs and lose their notes in staged press events. Do you know how old the average house rep is? There are so many sitting on the edge of their coffins, it's crazy to waste a bullet, let alone a more-expensive rock or bottle.

imo, we should not let the legislature, judges, or executive branch personnel out of those cages. Sentence them for life and disregard everything they say and do. All that guvmint machinery behind all that razor wire is just one big damn old folks home. As long as they have staff to change their Depends for them, we have nothing to worry about.

So that's the sum total of all I know about this.

Tell me how wrong I am.

(edit)

alright, so I'm kidding/lying. My dad, uncle and brother were competitive shooters and tried to teach me.

But political media does drive me nuts.

I think we should ban the press from covering stuff they know nothing about. Maybe if we did that, I'd have to shut up too.

Fine with me if we just shut down fake news and Chinese-style mass media with "fact-check" paid liars on the payroll. I know it sounds like giving people some literacy test to get to speak in public, but hell, that's what the libs are doing on their own owned accounts. Turn about is fair play.

damn. Caught myself lying again.

I'm not in favor of shutting down any free speech.

I live for the laughs.

Pretty sure our libs are burning their political capital the way they're printing faux currency and throwing money out the windows of Congress. It can't last long. There will be sanity some day soon.
 

LogGrad98

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2020-21 Award Winner
I disagree. Or at least I think they will use the first one less.

The second one envokes a certain mindset and feeling for some people that the first one simply can't match.

I don't think people even had the second one back when I was growing up and I don't think there were as many mass shootings. I think holding that badass looking gun makes people feel a certain way. Like they can do anything and they can't be stopped. Even though in practical use there isn't much difference between the two.

I doubt I would hear my co workers bragging about and showing pictures of their gun if they only had the first gun GF posted.

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You are right about bragging rights, but I do not believe having a badass gun is the catalyst for any shooters making that decision. I think it is their mental state so they are going to use the weapons available to them. Sure it might make a difference in a very small percentage, but take the guy who shot up the theater in Colorado. There are records of him meeting with a psychiatrist who indicated he was obsessed with killing a lot of people and had been obsessing about it for years and years. He bought 3 different weapons, a glock, a tactical shotgun, and an AR 15 looking gun. But if he had homicidal ideation for a decade and was that obsessed I really doubt that restricting him to a hunting version of the same rifle would have mattered. He wouldn't have thought "well I want to kill a lot of people and I have been planning it for a decade, but since I can't get a cool gun I guess I will call it off". I guess my point is that it isn't your buddies at work bragging about their assault rifles carrying out these shootings, it is people usually with severe mental health issues that are doing it. It is anything but rational.
 

LogGrad98

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2020-21 Award Winner
Knock on wood outside of Trolley Sq this hasn't been a huge issue in Utah. But it's all around us. Some of the biggest shootings in history are our neighbors with Colorado and Las Vegas. At some point, it will happen here again. Such a scary thought when you have kids in school.
Or when you go to the supermarket apparently. Or a movie theater. Or a church outing. Or a synagogue. Etc. etc.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I won't pretend to think that I have any answers to the issue. My point is only that even though those two guns are similar in a practical sense they are very very different due to the mentality that comes with them.

Kinda like a lab and pitbull are similar. Both can bite. Both eat and poop. Both can hurt or kill someone. But often times a person is getting a pitbull due to a certain mentality that the person getting the lab doesn't have. Because having a pitbull makes a certain type of person feel a certain type of way.

Too bad we can't just eliminate that kind of mentality.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Do-gooders on the prowl trying to eliminate any mentality is more scary than any guns we have.

And in defense of pit bulls. Hardly the thing of suburban housewives being mothers at home, but a thing in rougher neighborhoods where police won't show up. If you ban guns people deserve, at the very least, the choice of keeping a pit bull. Our university sweater-neck pinheads are remiss in not studying the sociology of the pitbull sub-culture. Not safe to go there with a notebook and gather data. Might be, gangs are the guvmint there, and anyone else who lives there has to know even gangsters don't wanna face off a pitbull.

My wife is scared of German Shepherds, and mice. People being scared is perhaps the best kind of education. Society as a whole, requires that as a pre-condition. Better to keep the scare tonic to a brew of little furries than send in bureaucrats to "help".
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
I won't pretend to think that I have any answers to the issue. My point is only that even though those two guns are similar in a practical sense they are very very different due to the mentality that comes with them.

Kinda like a lab and pitbull are similar. Both can bite. Both eat and poop. Both can hurt or kill someone. But often times a person is getting a pitbull due to a certain mentality that the person getting the lab doesn't have. Because having a pitbull makes a certain type of person feel a certain type of way.

Too bad we can't just eliminate that kind of mentality.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
You hit the nail on the head. The mental aspect of it is something that gets brushed aside and is really the core of the issue.

For the guy who did the theater shooting in Colorado, they have record of him calling a suicide prevention hotline, trying to find someone to talk him out of doing it, but he didn't connect through to a person and was disconnected. That was the last phone call he made before going to the theater. He was under psychiatric care, but there is currently no way to connect that in a background check. This entire system needs to be changed and improved to really have a chance of stopping these things in the long run.
 

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