Conley For Horford Discussion


FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
Not sure about this. Philly was the worst fit possible because Embiid plays the post and Ben can't shoot... honestly they had no knock down shooters. It would be 10 minutes at PF during the season... more depending on matchup.

Like is he a worse PF than JaMychal Green? He's a much better center than he is.
I want you to be right about this, tbh. And this is clearly a realistic deal. I just can’t get there. It would depend on the haul of other assets, for sure.
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
This is exactly my sticking point. And it’s exactly why I hated the Horford deal for Philly in the first place (and was soundly vindicated). He’s a 5, plain and simple, as far as I can tell.
What a stupid signing really, a head-scratcher from the moment it was announced. Being so close to contention in the East and then screwing up like that. Miami is clearly the team to beat in the East now (unless the Bucks make some brilliant moves).
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Al Horford is going to be 35 years old. He had a negative 10 +/- in the playoffs.

Mike Conley still gets buckets and can run an offense, and has real, demonstrative value to virtually any team in the NBA. This deal would essentially be Utah trading SoMething for Nothing. Bad strategy.
Al Horford is still something. The other stuff in the deal is the really appealing stuff... If they don't give that stuff up then there is no deal.
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
Al Horford is still something. The other stuff in the deal is the really appealing stuff... If they don't give that stuff up then there is no deal.
He is a backup 5 at this point.

What's the other stuff on the deal? Because you are taking one of the worst contracts in the league. In my opinion, is the type of move that you make when you are rebuilding: to absorb a horrendous contract for assests (young players, picks).

This deal doesn't fit our timeline, cap situation, positional need. We should be looking for 1 or 2 athletic wing defenders and a cheap backup 5.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I want you to be right about this, tbh. And this is clearly a realistic deal. I just can’t get there. It would depend on the haul of other assets, for sure.
Yeah if the other stuff isn't there then its a big no deal. I think we need a guy like Horford... and we could get something like that but it costs $10M+ a year.

Against Denver we did quite well starting Morgan on Nikola... I could see Al starting against the Lakers too. Portland may go to Collins at the PF. I think Al is fine against Morris if the Clips retain him. Dallas starts Kleber and Zinger... put Rudy on Kleber and let him shoot put Horford on Zinger and stick to him.

I think it'd be fairly easy to buy 10 minutes at PF against everyone except the Rockets... He'd help there as a backup center.

The Al Horford is washed narrative is kinda over sold. He was part of a solid defense this year. He's overpaid but that's why you get some good **** with him.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
Yeah if the other stuff isn't there then its a big no deal. I think we need a guy like Horford... and we could get something like that but it costs $10M+ a year.

Against Denver we did quite well starting Morgan on Nikola... I could see Al starting against the Lakers too. Portland may go to Collins at the PF. I think Al is fine against Morris if the Clips retain him. Dallas starts Kleber and Zinger... put Rudy on Kleber and let him shoot put Horford on Zinger and stick to him.

I think it'd be fairly easy to buy 10 minutes at PF against everyone except the Rockets... He'd help there as a backup center.

The Al Horford is washed narrative is kinda over sold. He was part of a solid defense this year. He's overpaid but that's why you get some good **** with him.
You’re seducing me. Again. But then I remember that DL will never trade Conley.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
He is a backup 5 at this point.

What's the other stuff on the deal? Because you are taking one of the worst contracts in the league. In my opinion, is the type of move that you make when you are rebuilding: to absorb a horrendous contract for assests (young players, picks).

This deal doesn't fit our timeline, cap situation, positional need. We should be looking for 1 or 2 athletic wing defenders and a cheap backup 5.
You are getting at least one of Thybulle or Milton who are good young perimeter talents who can provide production now and grow into better players. You are getting at least one first round pick and in the scenario I outlined a good second or two as well.

Al's best use is as a backup 5... I can make the argument that Mike's best use is as a backup pg. I think you will need additional size to compete with the Lakers and it is useful against the other contenders in the West.

I realize draft picks aren't likely to help us now, but that is how Utah will get its blue chip talent. The pick can also be used in a trade for the right opportunity.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
(whispers) we just hired a philly front office guy... we now have some insider info.
If I had that special feeling of being spoiled on Xmas when I looked at the haul of assets coming along with Horford, then I’d get right on board.

There’d need to be a pick that could facilitate a roster-balancing move later on. And I like Thybull AND Milton, wink wink.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
Joe and Horford would work really well together. They could both carry one another into their mid-30s, doing the bulk of their damage against second units.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
If I had that special feeling of being spoiled on Xmas when I looked at the haul of assets coming along with Horford, then I’d get right on board.

There’d need to be a pick that could facilitate a roster-balancing move later on. And I like Thybull AND Milton, wink wink.
I think the absolute most you can get is Richardson, Horford, one of Milton/Thybulle, a first, and a couple seconds. I don't think they are that desperate.

I really like Milton... like a lot. He already broke out, but I could see him having a big big jump in the right situation.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
I like him... I think he is overrated though. He gambles a ton to get his deflections. I'm not convinced the shot is going to be good enough either. I think I'd rather get Bazemore on the cheap.

I was just saying... given the choice I'd take Milton. I think that would likely be an unpopular opinion though. I really like Shake.. would like to see what he could do in more pick and roll and in an intelligent offense.
He is a rookie with historical stats, plenty of hype around him which leads to some horrible takes for sure but I believe he is one of the few players that could change the outlook of this team. There is something special about how he anticipates plays that is not just gambling.

His shot is ok from what I have seen, there is definitely room for improvement.

I respect your preference, there is nothing wrong with it. I didn't mean to question it. İt's just that I was surprised.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
He is a rookie with historical stats, plenty of hype around him which leads to some horrible takes for sure but I believe he is one of the few players that could change the outlook of this team. There is something special about how he anticipates plays that is not just gambling.

His shot is ok from what I have seen, there is definitely room for improvement.

I respect your preference, there is nothing wrong with it. I didn't mean to question it. İt's just that I was surprised.
Oh I think most would be surprised by it... no offense taken. Thybulle may very well be the guy that we should try to get and the current fit is pretty damn great. I also think Philly would be more likely to try and keep him. The cerebral attitude off the court is also something I like... he seems like a smart hard working guy.
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Horford has been a really good player. I don't think the failed Philly experiment should be held against him. That was an absolutely horrendous fit.

He might only play 20 mpg for us, but we would have better play out of our backup C and sometimes PF than almost anybody in the league. Most importantly, he fits exactly what we always appreciated from Favors PLUS the ability to shoot the 3 and pass at a high rate. So many talk about how much we missed Favors, just imagine if we got a player much better than Favors?

I'm excited about this trade idea for the young players though. We need youth and athleticism so badly. We need quality guys to groom with Donovan for the next phase. We likely won't get that guy from the draft or through free agency.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I'm just not sure why people think he is washed. His production slipped a bit this year but its fairly easy to explain. Mike's productions slipped way more.

You'd likely need to pivot away from paying Rudy and Al but he might recover some of his value... similar to what CP3 did. That was primarily health related but that albatross contract has seemingly become an asset now. Likely doesn't rebound that hard.

With Mike we bought high (really high) with Al you are buying low... if you don't get the premium you don't touch it. We'd all love to get guys in their prime or on great value deals but we really don't have the assets for that.
 

MVP

Well-Known Member
I'm just not sure why people think he is washed. His production slipped a bit this year.
His production was slipping badly in last few years. He plain sucks now and as soon as Philly gave him that contract he became most overpaid player in NBA by mile. Stop the Horford madness please.
 

FAILED STATE

Well-Known Member
I'm just not sure why people think he is washed. His production slipped a bit this year but its fairly easy to explain. Mike's productions slipped way more.

You'd likely need to pivot away from paying Rudy and Al but he might recover some of his value... similar to what CP3 did. That was primarily health related but that albatross contract has seemingly become an asset now. Likely doesn't rebound that hard.

With Mike we bought high (really high) with Al you are buying low... if you don't get the premium you don't touch it. We'd all love to get guys in their prime or on great value deals but we really don't have the assets for that.
for the record, I don’t think he’s washed. I just don’t see him as being too effective at the 4 anymore. But he can probably play 10 minutes a night there versus most matchups. A lot of that would come down to defensive principles (it would be fine on offense).
 

Avery

Well-Known Member
I think the reality is that you can't really dump Conley for much.

2021 is going to be an odd year where we're going to be stuck with largely the same team. My guess is wholesale changes won't really occur for two more years.
 
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