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Okay, let's make a few things clear:

#1 No one enjoys stay at home orders. No one. This tribalism of blaming Democrats or health experts for tanking the economy is ridiculous. We economy was tanked by the pandemic. It won't recover until we have better testing and tracing, or treatments, or vaccines.
#2 If you want a return to "normal" life and economic activity, then aim your anger towards Donald and his administration. For 3 months they wasted time instead of preparing for this. For 3 months they ignored intelligence reports and downplayed the severity of this pandemic. Since the pandemic, they've done little to ramp up testing and tracing on a national basis. Donald has mostly just sat around and watched tv, tweeted, and conducted embarrassing press conferences where he tore into reporters and suggested people use disinfectant. Stop playing political games by blaming experts. Stop blaming China. We didn't need to rely on them to tell us anything, that's why we have our own intelligence apparatus (intelligence that Donald ignored).
Instead of bailing Trump out by minimizing the deaths of thousands or proposing false dichotomies of "economy vs health", demand that our federal government follow the leadership set by South Korea and Germany. We don't need to re-invent the wheel here. We just need leadership.

I'll re-insert this here for those who might've missed it. This is Germany's response:

 
sahlensguy said:
Of course the benefit to risk equation is not equal. It never has been and never will be. The ruling class will always step on and take advantage of the unfortunate and unlucky. But adding to the momentum to open the economy back up is expecting those entry level and front line workers to risk MORE than they did before the pandemic for no added benefit for themselves. It is they who pay the even bigger price while it is others who want the economy open which results in an even bigger inequality. Sorry you think it's a game.

The answer to your question thiugh lies somewhere not in unemployment benefits but in a guaranteed minimum income for all.
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You failed to answer the question. Wanna try again?
 
candrew said:
Sweden just past three thousand deaths while doing nothing.

So adjusting for population that would put US deaths at a baseline of 90K.

You'd have to factor in some other stuff like US being the land of pre-existing conditions like diabetes, hypertension and obesity - all of which clearly exacerbate the underlying symptoms of COVID-19. Sweden is consistently rated as a top 5-10 country when it comes to overall heath while US is typically somewhere in the 30's. It's hard to put a number on that but let's call it another 10-12K.

So can we say the steps we've taken to mitigate the spread of the virus saved 25-27 thousands lives up to this point? Who knows. But food for thought.
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Yes, it has likely temporarily delayed some deaths that will occur while the population builds herd immunity.

Again, we have slowed the curve. Even with a successful vaccine, with the 1-2 years it will take to come to market with wide availability (best case scenario), herd immunity will have likely occurred.

The only deaths we can prevent without a cure or vaccine are those prevented by potentially overwhelming the health system.

Keep in mind, on average, when you go on a vent, your survival rate (COVID or otherwise) is only 15%.

Factor in suicide rates. A study of the Great Recession that began in late 2007 found that for every percentage point increase in the unemployment rate, there was about a 1.6 percent increase in the suicide rate. Add the additional stress if cabin fever and it is likely higher. And over 20mm jobs disappeared in April.
 
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RandyForRubio said:
Lol.

When do you think it will be safe enough to open up again?

And no, when things are equal risk does not qualify as an answer.
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Hard to say and safe for who? I'm not sure what opening up again even looks like. If it means opening up as nothing even happened, I'd say after the coming winter's flu season. A vaccine may come before then, or one may never come at all.
 
test_name_please_ignore said:
The only deaths we can prevent without a cure or vaccine are those prevented by potentially overwhelming the health system.
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Which shouldn't be understated - according to the NY Times, NYC reported over 4,200 "extra" deaths from mid-March to late April. Some of the folks were probably COVID-19 victims that were never diagnosed; but many others were certainly people with other pre-existing conditions that either couldn't or wouldn't go to the hospital.

Having said that as most do I favor a state-by-state approach to easing or ending the quarantine and I expect we'll start to see that en masse in the coming weeks. Unfortunately I also expect a lot more people to die. The people who think we're even halfway thru this thing better be prepared for that .
 


Nevermind how many lives it would take for this to "go away" absent a vaccine or testing and tracing mitigation strategy.
 
One Brow said:
"Not candid or sincere" - yes.
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I don't know enough about her to lable her that.

My whole point is she was sent to jail because she didn't apologize for trying to get by. People are wired differently. Maybe she's not used to accepting help?

Educate her. Throwing her in jail does nothing imo. It's a judge flexing and trying to make an example out of her.
 
Archie Moses said:
I don't know enough about her to lable her that.

My whole point is she was sent to jail because she didn't apologize for trying to get by. People are wired differently. Maybe she's not used to accepting help?

Educate her. Throwing her in jail does nothing imo. It's a judge flexing and trying to make an example out of her.
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She's already out of jail. The Lt. Gov paid her fine. She'll probably have a job with Fox News by this weekend.
 
candrew said:
She's already out of jail. The Lt. Gov paid her fine. She'll probably have a job with Fox News by this weekend.
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As someone who doesn't watch MSM is this what it has come down to?

Is this really that divisive? I mean, yeah, it's annoying people aren't following what's asked of them. I have the luxury to be able to. I'm not self employed. My friend, who is, is getting like 6 or 7 hundred bucks a week and has 5 kids. It's hard talking to him because he's so stressed out. Too many bills and not enough money to support HIS way of life.

The fact that the judge sent her to jail because she wouldn't apologize just makes me cringe as a human being. Get your head out of the politics, and off the social justice high horse and ask yourself, do you really think jail was the answer.

If you do, you probably think people should be behind bars because they smoke weed where it's not legal.

Jail/Prison is not the answer to punishment for so many things. It's not 1950 anymore.
 
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