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Douchebag K

Well-Known Member

As of Oct. 29, they were saying:
  • Whereas there is a wide range in antibody titers in response to infection with SARS-CoV-2, completion of a primary vaccine series, especially with mRNA vaccines, typically leads to a more consistent and higher-titer initial antibody response.
Also:
  • Substantial immunologic evidence and a growing body of epidemiologic evidence indicate that vaccination after infection significantly enhances protection and further reduces risk of reinfection, which lays the foundation for CDC recommendations.

I have tried several times to find where the CDC has said natural immunity is better, and have never found it. Can you link to that, please? If not, will you stop repeating this lie?

October 29. Lol
 


Douchebag K

Well-Known Member
did you try to not find it ?? It's been everywhere the last few days, depending where you look 2-5 times more effective having suffered a prior infection than vaccinated. Again i am not comparing that to then vaccinated prior or after infection.



I'd be waiting for an apology for the "lie" remark from a few of you but yeah i'm not gonna hold my breath. There's not a lot of intellectual honesty among a few of you
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
did you try to not find it ?? It's been everywhere the last few days,
In the mass media, sure, but I don't trust them to report this accurately.

I'd be waiting for an apology for the "lie" remark from a few of you but yeah i'm not gonna hold my breath.
It's true this data shows that unboosted individuals have a fall off of protection over time, so it was not a lie. I do apologize. It'll be interesting to see what the data looks like after October (since you think October information isn't worth much, and this data ends in October).

There's not a lot of intellectual honesty among a few of you
You don't exactly have the best track record in talking about this data.
 

fishonjazz

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The mRNA vaccines are a marvel. The speed with which they were developed and distributed is incredible and a testament to science, but to claim they are “some of the most effective medicines in human history” is a lie. They aren’t. There are a number of vaccines for other diseases that offer near 100% immunity for decades with a single dose. Everyone can see that multiple doses of the mRNA vaccine are required and still breakthrough infections happen. I’m not trying to downplay how great the vaccines are but when an author is calling them some of the most effective medicines in human history, the dishonesty of the author is obvious to everyone and the whole thing can be written off as propaganda. ...and if a news outlet is willing to publish blatant propaganda then maybe the entire outlet is propaganda. I wish media wouldn't be so cavalier with people's trust. Lies, even if they were well meaning, can leave an outsized impact.
Agreed
 

Douchebag K

Well-Known Member
In the mass media, sure, but I don't trust them to report this accurately.


It's true this data shows that unboosted individuals have a fall off of protection over time, so it was not a lie. I do apologize. It'll be interesting to see what the data looks like after October (since you think October information isn't worth much, and this data ends in October).


You don't exactly have the best track record in talking about this data.

You better be real specific when talking about accusing someone of lying mate. It reflects very very poorly on you. Covid is not a uniform disease. The age and health status of individuals are by far and away the biggest factors in the average outcome of having a case of Covid, and are you aware that someone's health and age status also play a significant role in how well that person responds and what immunity is generated in response to receiving a vaccine ?? There is a lot of interpretation regarding these matters and i may have a different point of view than you and take into different factors than you. A lot of this is not a binary issue, there are so many variables. You may be talking about purely antibody levels with regard to boosters, i'm talking about the overall immune response. Are there studies discussing the potential of antibody dependence effect with these vaccines yet ? There is a lot of concern amongst a lot of specialists in the field. Do the booster studies now take into account the much milder nature of Omicron as opposed to delta ?? Why is there so little credit given to natural immunity post Covid when it has always been granted with other diseases ?? There are so many things that cannot be given a full evaluatation due to the constant flux of this pandemic and ethical considerations. For instance, the Pfizer CEO says very specifically that his vaccine offers "little to no" resistance against Omicron and that they're working on a specific booster that might be ready in March ... but hey take another booster now after as little as 3 months. Boosters given so frequently goes against the prinicples of vaccination established for years and years.

Does it not concern you that in one year we've gone from statements that the vaccine will give you 100 % protection against infection and transmission, through rare breakthrough infections but little transmission to well you won't go to hospital but you might transmit it, to well now you won't die but you'll transmit the hell out of it ..... etc ??? Again for the slow of wit among us (that's not you btw) i and my family are double vaccinated. My mum is old so she's had a booster. But from what i see now i am going to seriously think about whether i will or won't get a booster when i'm due which is April. I'm currently leaning to not, as the evidence here thus far is that unless you really are vulnerable health wise or age wise this variant is rather mild and certainly not with the current jabs which were designed for the original variant. And i think there is a very good chance at least here and in other parts of the world that once this wave is finished the serious part of the pandemic may be over.


As an exercise .. these are some of the things said in our federal governments statement regarding vaccinating 5-11 year olds. Keep in mind that here there has only been ONE child in that age group die with Covid throughout the whole pandemic and that poor kiddie had terminal cancer.

"ATAGI notes that real-world evidence on the safety of this vaccine in children aged 5-11 years is rapidly accumulating overseas, including data on the low rate of rare adverse events following immunisation, notably myocarditis, which the clinical trial was insufficiently powered to assess"
"The paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine has been demonstrated to reduce COVID-19 in children 5-11 years of age. Within an ongoing clinical trial evaluating the paediatric Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine in children aged 6 months to 11 years of age, results have been reported for the age group 5 to 11 years.1"
"Vaccine effectiveness data from real world experience are not yet available for children aged 5-11 years but are expected in coming months"
"Clinical trials were conducted prior to the emergence of the Omicron variant, and the results reflect vaccine efficacy against older strains of SARS-CoV-2. Vaccine efficacy or effectiveness against the Omicron strain is not yet known"
"The Pfizer clinical trial and safety expansion population included a total of approximately 3000 children who received the trial vaccine. The trial was therefore not powered to detect any rare unanticipated adverse events or to assess rates of myocarditis and pericarditis following immunisation in this age group"
"The risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in children aged 5-11 years is not yet known but appears to be rare based on preliminary data from US surveillance networks. While early reporting in children aged 5-11 years in the United States suggests a very low rate of myocarditis following first and second doses, further data are expected in the coming weeks"

In weighing up the outcomes of the unvaccinated vs vaccinated that it finishes with
"There were no cases of severe COVID-19 in either group"

So now there is a big push to vaccinate kids in this age group at the moment. Does reading this give you any cause for concern .. ?? Given that one of the basic principles of medicine is "first do no harm" I also find your complete dismissal of vaccine injuries / reactions to be a little flippant and to be frank a little lazy There is clearly an issue with a very small percentage of young men developing cardiac reactions and i know for a fact talking to medical colleagues that there is a concerted push from the government health departments here to play it down. Sadly i have a lot less trust in governments of all sides now compared to pre pandemic.

I do agree about the mass media though btw. I don't see any integrity in reporting. Across the spectrum of political leanings.
 

Douchebag K

Well-Known Member
The mRNA vaccines are a marvel. The speed with which they were developed and distributed is incredible and a testament to science, but to claim they are “some of the most effective medicines in human history” is a lie. They aren’t. There are a number of vaccines for other diseases that offer near 100% immunity for decades with a single dose. Everyone can see that multiple doses of the mRNA vaccine are required and still breakthrough infections happen. I’m not trying to downplay how great the vaccines are but when an author is calling them some of the most effective medicines in human history, the dishonesty of the author is obvious to everyone and the whole thing can be written off as propaganda. ...and if a news outlet is willing to publish blatant propaganda then maybe the entire outlet is propaganda. I wish media wouldn't be so cavalier with people's trust. Lies, even if they were well meaning, can leave an outsized impact.

the mRNA technology delivery system is for sure an absolute marvel. The issue is what it is delivering ie the spike protein and claims that it will eradicate Covid. And also the lack of understanding of how it triggers the small percentage of cardiac issues in mostly younger men.
 

fishonjazz

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And also the lack of understanding of how it triggers the small percentage of cardiac issues in mostly younger men.
as for this part..... Doesn't pretty much every single medication in existence have side effect risks? Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. Not to mention all those ones you see commercials for that cause anal leakage and whatnot. Pain medication. Cough syrup. Everything has danger attached to it. I would bet that pain pills (percocet, oxy, fetanyl, etc) have cause way way way more issues than a vaccine. Where are all the anti pain medication protesters?
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
as for this part..... Doesn't pretty much every single medication in existence have side effect risks? Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. Not to mention all those ones you see commercials for that cause anal leakage and whatnot. Pain medication. Cough syrup. Everything has danger attached to it. I would bet that pain pills (percocet, oxy, fetanyl, etc) have cause way way way more issues than a vaccine. Where are all the anti pain medication protesters?
And the side effects of the medicines substituted by anti vaxxers often have worse side effects and at a higher frequency. People chugging horse dewormer or drinking your own urine is far worse than taking a damn vaccine.
 

Douchebag K

Well-Known Member
as for this part..... Doesn't pretty much every single medication in existence have side effect risks? Tylenol, ibuprofen, etc. Not to mention all those ones you see commercials for that cause anal leakage and whatnot. Pain medication. Cough syrup. Everything has danger attached to it. I would bet that pain pills (percocet, oxy, fetanyl, etc) have cause way way way more issues than a vaccine. Where are all the anti pain medication protesters?

Sure and they've usually been adequately studied and scrutinized for the appropriate period of time. And uhh nobody is forcing anyone to take those ?? and generally those side effects would come from high level abuse of said medications not one dose.

it's all about the risk vs reward dude and the undeniable fact that there haven't been any medium to long term studies done on the lasting potential cardiac effects or other side effects, in fact it more seems to have been swept under the carpet.

And you're right about the pain medication issue there should be protesters. That is a massive scandal and blight on the pharma companies. And tbh if the American government was serious they could make those painkillers incredibly difficult to get, just like they have for Ivermectin which is truly one of the safest drugs on record ever with a long track record and nobel prize to it's name. I find it difficult to understand those that are usually rightfully concerned about big pharma are so vehemently for blanket vaccination. Doesn't the FDA wanting to supress it's records regarding Covid vaccines for 75 years bother anyone ?? This week the British Medical Journal has called for all vaccination and treatment records to be released as a matter of urgency.


And i'm sorry but anyone drinking their own urine and such ... that's just called natural selection Deflecting querying of the vaccination by pointing to those idiots is just lazy really
 


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