Coronavirus

[FalseFlagg K]

Maybe you didn't read the same CDC document I linked to, and are referring to something else. Because that document makes it very clear that we were only able to get to this state by achieving a massive program of vaccination, and isolation/distancing until the vaccinations were sufficiently in place. Now that the situation on the ground has changed, public health advice has adjusted. It's what I had been hoping for these past 2.5 years.

If I ever said I thought the pandemic would end (as opposed to becoming endemic), I was naive and wrong. I don't recall saying that or believing that, but I'm often not good at remembering what I used to believe.

not you in those exact terms but there were certainly several simpletons who i usually ignore who said that in very specific terms I'm not basing my view on that CDC report, my view is on continually reading published papers and data and continual statements from authorities who were very much pushing the whole "get vaccinated so you don't catch or transmit Covid" in those exact terms "pandemic of the unvaccinated" etc who are now quite clearly and casually stating that the vaccines don't work well at ALL for those purposes.

Does someone like you not recognise that a lot of the data interpretation contained so much noise as to be unscientific to draw a lot of the definitive conclusions that have been used ? How do we know the pandemic might not have wavered up and down and got to this point anyway ??? I don't know about there but in Australia a lot of the public health advice has been farcical and much more political than scientifically based.

The only mechanisms you can draw definitive proof from are double blind trials and these haven't been done. Yes we didn't have time but there were a lot of things that seemed apparent much earlier than what the authorities adjusted to.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

If the conspiracy theories are correct, 4.9B people are supposed to be dying anytime soon as part of the Bill Gates New World Order. I'm not sure if it's a slow, painful death or our heads explode simultaneously, but I bet it might make the news either way.

who said anything about conspiracy theories ?? I'm not talking about the nutters who think there's a tracking device and all those people are going to die. I'm talking about sensible reasoned reservations about everyone having to take the Covid vaccines across the board for a condition that is very much on mild side of the scale for a large percentage of the population

 

[fishonjazz]

yeah i got my first 2 shots No ****ing way i'm getting any more, boosters are useless unless you're vulnerable.

I trust my family doctor.

 

[fishonjazz]

at least you're honest enough to admit it your view was based on "what it seemed"

The problem is the data was being collected in real time. It hadn't been studied properly for either efficacy nor potential side effects

Well i mean its pretty easy data. Someone checks into the hospital. They are asked if they are vaccinated or not. If way more say "not" then that seems pretty clear. I dont see why you would have to wait for more data. I think the vaccines were very effective at one point. Less effective at other points.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Interesting to see the responses. What i'm questioning are those who were so vehemently insistent that everyone must take it and those who didn't want to should be excluded from society, shunned, denied medical attention.

Let me be clear so i'm not misinterpreted. I was very excited when the vaccines were being developed and some of the early trial data. I've been very pro modern medicine. Even early in our vaccine rollout here i was a little uncomfortable with some of the rhetoric being used about a new medication and the lack of supporting data so i waited to get my first two shots until i basically had to because of a mandate as i am not in a high risk group. Was mostly ok doing it from the community point of view. However the numbers of "breakthrough" infections amongst the vaxxed and the lack of open discourse didn't make sense pretty soon after that and the suppression and denial of people who i'd known to have a couple of serious side effects caused me to become cynical pretty quickly. I have not seen any compelling evidence to support boosters again unless you're in a vulnerable category where it is then definitely worth it. So anyone older, frail and any pre existing medical conditions would be foolish to not get these vaxxes. Younger healthy people ?? ppfffttt Next to zero reason to. I've walked away from a few jobs that required mandated boosters. Both my teens chose to get the vaccines only so they wouldn't miss out on social events. Both have had Covid I have either had an asymptomatic infection or haven't had it although i'm exposed to a lot of people. Both my girls have experienced quite alarming differences in their periods follow vaccination. How has this not been studied properly before administering to young women on a wide scale ?

I've never seen government authorities responsible for "health" be so willfully misrepresentative. The lack of specificity for who should really consider taking the Covid vaccines is so negligent it beggars belief. This is not a one solution fits all problem. The fact that any doctor here giving patients exemptions to people for being vaxxed are threatened with being struck off the medical register is so alarming. The medical profession as a whole has taken a big hit to it's credibility.

I know some people who are still being denied their employment on the basis that if they're not booster they're somehow a risk to others. Even when they've previously had Covid and have natural immunity proven by bloodwork. Even though it's clear and has been for a long time that is just not true.


Just curious as to how many people, government authorities, health practitioners who pushed and continue to push things like vaccines for healthy young kids and younger adults and those who so strongly would have wanted to shut out healthy unvaccinated individuals have in retrospect considered whether they were just plain wrong to do so. And not because the "science shifted" or "goalposts moved" but that the science wasn't completed properly in the first place. I've certainly changed a lot of my initial views and sadly feel a lot more cynical.


I wish you all the very best of health

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Well i mean its pretty easy data. Someone checks into the hospital. They are asked if they are vaccinated or not. If way more say "not" then that seems pretty clear. I dont see why you would have to wait for more data. I think the vaccines were very effective at one point. Less effective at other points.

you don't think there's a whole lot of other noise and factors around that data ??

 

[fishonjazz]

dude seriously ... it doesn't bother you that a lot of this is "maybe" ?? Do you think a bunch of "maybe" things justify forcing people who are perfectly healthy to take a new unproven medication that they don't want to that can have ???

Yes i think that maybe can justify things. If me getting vaccinated might save someones, or my own, life then I think getting vaccinated is worth it. I knew a healthy and young man that died from covid. DIdn't get vaccinated. I bet his family wishes he would have gotten vaccinated even if it only "might" have saved his life.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

I trust my family doctor.

well i would have thought that but i know a lot of doctors here who were too fearful to speak up and say what they really thought. So sadly unwavering trust in the medical system has really plummeted

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Yes i think that maybe can justify things. If me getting vaccinated might save someones, or my own, life then I think getting vaccinated is worth it. I knew a healthy and young man that died from covid. DIdn't get vaccinated. I bet his family wishes he would have gotten vaccinated even if it only "might" have saved his life.

maybe maybe maybe Fair enough if thats your view, i respect that. I now don't agree that it's anywhere near that clear or simple

 

[fishonjazz]

you don't think there's a whole lot of other noise and factors around that data ??

Nope. I go to the doctor for a covid infection. They ask if im vaccinated. I say yes or no. Not very noisy to me.

 

[fishonjazz]

well i would have thought that but i know a lot of doctors here who were too fearful to speak up and say what they really thought. So sadly unwavering trust in the medical system has really plummeted

Ya its really trendy to not trust anything these days. Dont trust doctors or media or the government or cops. I dont really follow trends all that much.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Ya its really trendy to not trust anything these days. Dont trust doctors or media or the government or cops. I dont really follow trends all that much.

i have no idea what your point is other than you're happy to blindly trust what you're told. I was very much that way pre Covid.