Coronavirus

[Beer]

He knows they are not ok with it. But in the grand scheme of things he doesn't care if they are or not. He's taking a fairly straightforward utilitarian approach to the problem, stating, in essence, it is better to just allow a smaller portion of the population to die than for the bulk of the population to suffer. The major axiom he is espousing here is that all suffering is equal. So someone suffering from lack of a job is equal to someone else dying. So, to oversimplify, if you can save many jobs by allowing a few deaths, that tilts the scale in favor of allowing the deaths, since it alleviates the suffering of many but allowing the suffering of relatively few. It also gets to the core of many criticisms of utilitarianism, what is the value/cost of a human life? Frankly this concept is applied in very very many scenarios across society all the time. When the 737 maxes crashed society set a value on those lives by not requiring an infinite payment from Boeing. By imposing specific and ultimately limited "sanctions", both officially and societal (loss of stock value for example), "we" set an actual monetary value on the lives lost in those crashes. What he is proposing isn't terrible far removed from this concept, it's just more direct in it's valuing, or devaluing as it may be viewed, of life. And specifically lives he feels already have less value since they are potentially at risk anyway. It's pretty callous, yes, but a common way for people to assess these scenarios because we all feel our own suffering more acutely than the suffering of others, so it's human nature to view our own pleasure or suffering as equally or more important than others when from a purely objective standpoint that just isn't true.

I'd say you are about 80% right in what I'm thinking. And yes, I'll agree it's callous but, imo at least, it's far more logical than the save everyone at all costs approach.

1. First off, I do think certain lives are more valuable and or important than others. For example a 35 year old mother of 5 would be far more important to save than an 80 year old grandmother.

2. @leftyjace mentioned he would fall into the very vulnerable camp do to his weight, and age. Now I have no idea if he is just a little chunky or is actually very overweight or even obese. I'm not saying all the fat and old should run out and start licking everything to get COVID as fast as possible so they can be sacrificed. I'm saying they should be shouldering the brunt of this pandemic. They shouldn't be leaving the house unless absolutely necessary, they should be wearing 4 masks on top of each other and face guard, they should be injecting bleach into their veins, they should be washing their hands every 10 minutes.

The local restaurants should not be shut down. If you are vulnerable then sorry you don't get to enjoy delicious mole from Red Iguana for awhile. You don't get to go to Thanksgiving this year. You know, you get screwed but it makes a **** ton more sense for you to have to live by all these regulations than for the entire population to. Especially when it is pretty clear there isn't a whole lot we can do in the grand scheme of things. Unless we just make every single person stay inside for a few months.

3. So no, I don't want you to die even if you don't take care of yourself, or you were unlucky enough to be old right now, or you got a **** draw and were born with some immune system issues. I hope you do everything in your power to not get COVID so you can live to be as old as you please. I just don't think it's reasonable to ask everyone else in the world to have their lives turned upside down for you.

 

[JazzGal]

As far as I can tell, Beer, that's what most vulnerable people are doing (and yet they still can get it no matter how careful they are - see nursing home problems). And it appears that everyone else couldn't care less. We are all limited to gatherings of 10 people or less if we are in the High Risk counties (which most of the state is), but people are still having large funerals and other gathering and ignoring that directive completely.

I have two siblings who think the whole thing is stupid and only wear masks when they have to (at work, certain stores, etc). They haven't changed anything else in their lives. They are upset that we will not be having a big Thanksgiving dinner this year, even though they know that my 82-year-old mother and I are very vulnerable, and my sister who always hosts the dinner is my only cautious sibling. Maybe those two families will get together. The best part is that I live with my mother, who is the best cook in the family. So my Thanksgiving dinner for two will still be just as yummy as always.

 

[Beer]

As far as I can tell, Beer, that's what most vulnerable people are doing (and yet they still can get it no matter how careful they are - see nursing home problems). And it appears that everyone else couldn't care less. We are all limited to gatherings of 10 people or less if we are in the High Risk counties (which most of the state is), but people are still having large funerals and other gathering and ignoring that directive completely.

I have two siblings who think the whole thing is stupid and only wear masks when they have to (at work, certain stores, etc). They haven't changed anything else in their lives. They are upset that we will not be having a big Thanksgiving dinner this year, even though they know that my 82-year-old mother and I are very vulnerable, and my sister who always hosts the dinner is my only cautious sibling. Maybe those two families will get together. The best part is that I live with my mother, who is the best cook in the family. So my Thanksgiving dinner for two will still be just as yummy as always.

As far as I can tell a lot of vulnerable people are just living their lives. No masks, out and about in stores, etc ..... So are a lot of non-vulnerable. The difference is the non-vulnerable aren't dying. As far as nursing homes, maybe they should be put on 100% lockdown, no visitors, nothing in and out, employees being tested non stop. Maybe that would be a good start. Was it Cuomo or De Blasio, both barely functioning morons, forcing nursing homes to take positive covid cases? So that's idiotic, but hey they are really passionate about shutting down small businesses.

Just the hint of some logic and sanity would go a long way in increasing public trust and compliance. But it is non-existent.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Even Putin has become anti trump. Now he’s pretending that the pandemic is real. He just ordered a mask mandate! Doesn’t Putin know that this is exactly what the socialist Biden mainstream media types want? He’s just being used as a pawn by liberals to get Americans free healthcare and affordable college.

Putin orders national mask mandate in Russia as coronavirus spikes in second wave

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday ordered a nationwide mask mandate as a second wave of coronavirus cases put the country’s medical system under a severe strain.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Deleted member 365]

This isn’t going to end well

 

[leftyjace]

Anyone who thinks this is just an old person problem is fooling themselves.

Yesterday’s deaths in Utah span the full range.

• A Salt Lake County man between ages 25 and 44 who was hospitalized when he died
• A Tooele County man between ages 44 and 65 who was also hospitalized
• A Davis County woman between ages 65 and 84 who was the resident of a long-term care facility

 

[LogGrad98]

Anyone who thinks this is just an old person problem is fooling themselves.

Yesterday’s deaths in Utah span the full range.

Remember, they were weak and needed to die to cull the herd.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Anyone who thinks this is just an old person problem is fooling themselves.

Yesterday’s deaths in Utah span the full range.

they’re weak. They shouldn’t have let covid dominate them. Why didn’t they call Marine One to deliver them to Johns Hopkins?

 

[Beer]

Anyone who thinks this is just an old person problem is fooling themselves.

Yesterday’s deaths in Utah span the full range.

The statistics are not your friend on this one. And I never said only the old, the old, the obese, the diabetic, the already very sick, those already on the verge of death.

Take a look at this.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Anyone who thinks this is just an old person problem is fooling themselves.

Yesterday’s deaths in Utah span the full range.

Covid is very clearly crazily skewed toward harming those with weak immune systems. Be it old, poor health, congenitally compromised.

 

[Red]

No excuse for why this information should be hidden from the public.

Someone's Leaked the Covid-19 Hospitalization Data That the Trump Administration Kept Under Wraps

When the federal government put the Department of Health and Human Services in charge of hospital data aggregation instead of its subsidiary, the Centers

gizmodo.com

Internal Documents Reveal COVID-19 Hospitalization Data The Government Keeps Hidden

Where are hospitals reaching capacity? Which metro areas are running out of beds? NPR has learned federal agencies collect and analyze this information in detail but don't share it with the public.

www.npr.org

 

[Red]

Seems to me this is a piss poor place to find ourselves....

White House rips Fauci after criticism of Atlas and Trump's pandemic response

The White House on Saturday unleashed on Dr. Anthony Fauci, the country's leading infectious disease expert, following his comments to the Washington Post that criticized the Trump administration's response to the pandemic, including Dr. Scott Atlas, who the President has relied on for advice on...

www.cnn.com

“In Friday's interview with the Post, Fauci also criticized Atlas, a neuroradiologist and Trump's hand-picked coronavirus adviser, for his lack of expertise.

"I have real problems with that guy," Fauci said. "He's a smart guy who's talking about things that I believe he doesn't have any real insight or knowledge or experience in. He keeps talking about things that when you dissect it out and parse it out, it doesn't make any sense."

Atlas responded to Fauci on Twitter, tweeting on Saturday night: #Insecurity #EmbarrassingHimself #Exposed #CantThrowABall #NoTimeForPolitics.

Fauci gave a grim warning of a Covid-19 surge as the country heads into fall and winter.

"We're in for a whole lot of hurt. It's not a good situation," Fauci told the Post. "All the stars are aligned in the wrong place as you go into the fall and winter season, with people congregating at home indoors. You could not possibly be positioned more poorly."