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Cougars 2011-12 Football Discussion

Scat said:
Wait, what happened to being independent?
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I guess you missed Kicky's rant on Logg? I am a registered Dumbocrat, so I'll just say that for now. I feel like I'm as independent as they come, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let Tink go ape on me too.
 
TroutBum said:
After two weeks of sitting on the sidelines, reading, pondering, and praying, I just want to say this: As a Democrat and a BYU fan, I HATE The Thriller and would appreciate it if the world would kindly consider the idea that's he's really not one of us, and to not throw him in with our "ilk".

Gracias,

Trout.
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Thriller is the first and only person I've ever put on ignore. If he's not intentionally trying to be annoying I feel real, real sorry for him...
 
Duck Rodgers said:
Yeah, all Utah State fans certainly don't feel that way, but your message boards definitely have given off that vibe for a few years now. I mean, c'mon, you guys were the impetus for the so called "Riley Nelson" rule that the NCAA passed.

As for Heaps, I don't know. Best case scenario for BYU would be that Riley Nelson continues to play well this year, goes into next year as the starter, and Heaps takes a redshirt year to foment some kind of passion and learn to put some touch on the ball. He's too mechanical for anything other than looking like an All-American in practice right now. Although, certainly the guys calling the plays haven't used him properly. Of course, like you mentioned, there is a high probability that he is a primmadonna and won't want to take the lesson and learn from it and come back and compete for the starting job in '13.

Ben Olson was the #1 rated QB a few years back coming out of high school, transferred to UCLA from BYU after the coaches played games with him, and bombed out so I wouldn't even flinch if he left other than possibly be concerned about future depth. BYU's got some nice QB talent in the pipeline, I'm not sure he is a lock to come back in '13 and win the starting job if that's how this situation ultimately plays out.
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Isn't Nelson a senior?
 
Surely said:
Isn't Nelson a senior?
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Nope, got a med redshirt for last year. If Friday night wouldn't have happened, there was talk that he was just going to move on with life after this year and go to Med school or something instead of warming the bench an extra year, but I doubt he would still do that if he is the starting QB.
 
Duck Rodgers said:
Yeah, all Utah State fans certainly don't feel that way, but your message boards definitely have given off that vibe for a few years now. I mean, c'mon, you guys were the impetus for the so called "Riley Nelson" rule that the NCAA passed.

As for Heaps, I don't know. Best case scenario for BYU would be that Riley Nelson continues to play well this year, goes into next year as the starter, and Heaps takes a redshirt year to foment some kind of passion and learn to put some touch on the ball. He's too mechanical for anything other than looking like an All-American in practice right now. Although, certainly the guys calling the plays haven't used him properly. Of course, like you mentioned, there is a high probability that he is a primmadonna and won't want to take the lesson and learn from it and come back and compete for the starting job in '13.

Ben Olson was the #1 rated QB a few years back coming out of high school, transferred to UCLA from BYU after the coaches played games with him, and bombed out so I wouldn't even flinch if he left other than possibly be concerned about future depth. BYU's got some nice QB talent in the pipeline, I'm not sure he is a lock to come back in '13 and win the starting job if that's how this situation ultimately plays out.
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IMO it is even more important that Heaps learns how to make reads in the offense. He just stares down one receiver. The other receivers know it and don't make an effort to get open. Also needs to learn how to his best Tom Brady impression of moving just enough around in the pocket to extend plays just a little bit.

Because Heaps is married to a BYU student (at least I think she is a BYU student) it might be more difficult for him to transfer. Personally I think he might stick it out even with redshirt year next year.
 
Qman said:
IMO it is even more important that Heaps learns how to make reads in the offense. He just stares down one receiver. The other receivers know it and don't make an effort to get open. Also needs to learn how to his best Tom Brady impression of moving just enough around in the pocket to extend plays just a little bit.

Because Heaps is married to a BYU student (at least I think she is a BYU student) it might be more difficult for him to transfer. Personally I think he might stick it out even with redshirt year next year.
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Can you actually learn read progressions though? I mean, obviously I want to say yes, because with most things in life you can learn to do whatever you want, but I just haven't seen that with many football players. Heaps doesn't even use pump fakes or anything. Surely with all the private tutoring he has had as a QB over the years, somebody has tried to teach him to go through his progressions, no? He is clearly an aimer though. He's lucky he throws hard and into the ground sometimes because he would have even more INTs if he didn't.

Good point on Heaps' redshirt. Though I really doubt his wife would have trouble enrolling in any other school, both because BYU has good academic standards already so she probably got there because she has a brain, and we all know even if that isn't the case, special circumstances would be worked out.
 
It's probably a moot point. After Nelson goes back to sucking, people will start yelling for Heaps again.
 
catratcho said:
It's probably a moot point. After Nelson goes back to sucking, people will start yelling for Heaps again.
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I hope they go through the whole depth chart before getting back to Heaps if Nelson can't perform. #3 and #4 could be the best quarterbacks on the roster. Heck, #5 a few years ago is now the starting QB at SUU and he has been tearing it up. You never know what these guys will do in game situations. Practice is actually a pretty horrible simulation when you think about it, with all the restrictions coaches put on hitting and such and how little reps these guys actually get. I'm not convinced coaches actually have any idea what the depth really looks like sometimes, especially with quarterbacks.
 
You can absolutely learn progressions. It's just a matter of reps. Everyone likes Heap's arm strength but it got him into a lot of bad habits. It's just a matter of time and willingness on his part to change. But it is possible and likely probable that Heaps will improve dramatically if he puts his mind to it.

And you can get plenty game-situation reps in practice if you structure it correctly. But talent is an issue on the practice field at BYU. Compare the scout/regular defense a QB at BYU goes against in practice to what a QB at say Alabama goes against at practice.
 
Is Jake Heaps hated by his teammates? There's been rumors about a bad attitude and not really having a presence in that locker room but there's no real way to confirm any of that. However, after he was benched you didn't really see any of his teammates trying to lift his spirits on the sidelines. Not only that, they all seemed especially amped up after Riley Nelson entered the game.

Heaps obviously has problems with how he's playing right now, but almost just as important, I'm not sure he has shown the ability to lead that team in any way, shape, or form.
 
I've heard rumors that Heaps has a "Chosen One" type syndrome. He thinks he's just the **** and everybody needs to get on board or get run over. Don't know how his team mates feel about him or if what I've heard is true.
 
The key is to recruit surfers with missile launchers for arms as your quarterbacks. It works for USC. They've had nothing but spoiled rich kid surfers at QB, but all their guys seem to be laid back and understand that they are just playing football when it comes down to it and there is no need to be so wound up all the time; just go out and sling freely. Heaps looks like he is trying out for the NFL every play and the pressure just melts him. Nelson is a surfer at heart, even if he doesn't actually surf. He's just missing the missile launcher.
 
I think benching Heaps might be a good thing. I've heard a lot about how he thought his spot was guaranteed, how he was god's gift to BYU, and how he missed workouts with the WRs, etc.

One way to motivate an immature lazy *** is to show him that he can easily be benched. Besides, it's not like BYU is competing for anything anyway. The results from here on out are probably going to be the same no matter who plays QB.

If Heaps has hurt feelings or pouts, let him transfer. Too often we throw programs and coaches under the bus because we feel that "x" player needs to be coddled. We let the inmates run the asylum. If Heaps wants to lose one year of eligibility and try and not suck at another program, let him go. BYU will survive. Heaps, might not...

Besides, BYU would only miss out on talent... Talent that has thus far, not proven or improved at all. Seriously folks, Heaps hasn't shown a damn thing. How do we know this kid isn't Kwuame Brown or Ryan Leaf? Both those dudes oozed with talent but couldn't play a lick. Just because Heaps had a strong arm in High School doesn't mean that he would be any better than me in college.
I haven't seen any accuracy, any intelligence, weak competitiveness, no toughness, and absolutely no command of the offense out of him. I'm by no means a huge fan of Max Hall, but at least that dude had control of the offense. It didn't take him 2-3 years to do it either. Even Wynn has showed more to me than Heaps (and Wynn sucks!).

BYU needs to do what's best for its own program. If that means going with Nelson for the rest of this year and hope that Heaps matures (or recruit another QB/develop another), then that's what needs to be done.

BYU will survive. Even if the worst case scenario happens, BYU will survive. Heaps? Your clock is ticking buddy.
 
Heaps needs to start. He needs to finish. Nelson sucks and is not the answer. Let Heaps crash and burn all year long if need be. STOP F'ING WITH THE QB POSITION, A-HOLES.
 
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