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Derek Chauvin Murder Trial

One Brow said:
Well, as usual, The Thriller and Eenie-Meenie are putting things in an extreme light, but if you go looking for videos of police training and seminars, you'll see a lot "us vs. them" and "establish control" being emphasized over more than "respect and protect".
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I do agree with that. I also understand the human nature of having almost every single interraction you have every single day being negative. Does that justify murder and police brutality? No, but do I generally give them a pass when they are less than super pleasant? Yes. I also understand that they chose this profession so I dont really feel all too bad for them, but they are still humans, and like it or not their environment plays a huge factor in how they act.
 
One Brow said:
Well, as usual, The Thriller and Eenie-Meenie are putting things in an extreme light, but if you go looking for videos of police training and seminars, you'll see a lot "us vs. them" and "establish control" being emphasized over more than "respect and protect".
Click to expand...
Extreme light? Please expand on this.

The state of Kentucky was using that training since the early 1990s. It has caused even their Governor to order an investigation. Now what he can actually change in a red state with a red legislature is another issue... When “extremism” is so prevalent, don’t we have to consider it "mainstream?" Clearly, our issues aren’t based on “a few bad apples.” We have a system that is rotten to the core. We have a system designed to incentivize the exploitation and brutalization of minority communities without any accountability.

We incarcerate more than Russia and China. The incarceration rates of POC is many times that of whites. We allow the police to confiscate and keep private property even after those arrested see their charges dropped/aren't found guilty. Civil Forfeiture is a real problem:
www.aclu.org

Asset Forfeiture Abuse | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.
www.aclu.org www.aclu.org
www.nbcnews.com

Opinion | It'll take more than a Supreme Court case to end police abuse of property rights

Arbitrary state actions are exactly what the courts should be checking, and the Timbs decision provides a way to challenge many such abuses.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com


Like our extreme gun violence rates, Americans are so used to "extreme" issues with law enforcement, that we've become numb to its effect. It's now so mainstream to have brutal, racist, and unaccountable police that we no longer bat an eye to the insane rates of incarceration and police killings. We're just so used to police confiscating property that we don't even care. We're just used to police occupying communities (as long as they aren't OUR communities).

www.usatoday.com

Kentucky State Police training presentation quoting Hitler is 'unacceptable,' governor says

The Kentucky State Police training slideshow by a former top official quoted Adolf Hitler three times and advocated for officers to use "ruthless" violence.
www.usatoday.com
 
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Beer said:
I do agree with that. I also understand the human nature of having almost every single interraction you have every single day being negative. Does that justify murder and police brutality? No, but do I generally give them a pass when they are less than super pleasant? Yes. I also understand that they chose this profession so I dont really feel all too bad for them, but they are still humans, and like it or not their environment plays a huge factor in how they act.
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100% agree with you.
 
The problem is the system that we have set up. Who and how are police held accountable?

1. Neither political party wants to touch them. Democrats don't want to mess with unions and Republicans don't want to mess with their unholy alliance with law enforcement. It makes for poor politics to say that you're "going after law enforcement." It makes it too easy for opponents to smear you as "soft on crime."
2. Prosecutors don't want to touch them because they're working with them. They have to maintain those relationships.
3. Police unions have unprecedented power and control. They'll defend even the worst police officers. No one wants to screw up this gravy train.
4. We have an entire incentive structure for police to extort and brutalize certain communities. A police officer will never be tempted to police Holladay like he will Kearns or Rose Park. Why? Because there's no incentive to!
5. The qualifications for police are so ridiculously low, that we don't really have any filter or vetting system. So any adrenaline crazed junkie can get on the force. I really do think that law enforcement would benefit by requiring all officers to have 4 year college degrees. Just to vet out a certain segment of our population. I also feel like those who have graduated from college (GENERALLY NOT ALWAYS) have better people skills and critical thinking skills. Education is a positive force that severely lacks in law enforcement.
6. Finally, we have a media that fetishizes the police. Think about it, when you turn on the tv at night, network tv is filled with pro-law enforcement shows. You never see pro banker or pro teacher shows. As a result, we have a warped perception of what law enforcement officers are and what police work is. We fetishize the police just like we fetishize guns. It's unhealthy and it's preventing us from seeing how unbelievably bad our law enforcement is compared to the rest of the world.

The problem isn't a few bad apples. The problem is a system that creates a horrible environment for communities. Honestly, it creates an unhealthy environment for the police too. No one profession should have too much power and no accountability.
 
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One further word about the police academies. Some of you might know from news reports that in these academies, officers are TRAINED to shoot to kill. That is when they pull their gun they are TRAINED to shoot in the area of largest mass, that is the chest. In other words at the heart, which obviously will kill someone. That needs to change.

The other thing about those stats I posted. They are from a website which I linked. But I have in the past checked these stats and they are correct. I need to emphasize that in the UK with a population of 60 million there are only 50-60 deaths caused by police annually compared to more than a 1,000 in the U.S. Why is that? Because most police there don't carry guns, they carry billy clubs. They also have much stricter gun control laws. It's the same in Japan. This is why their rates for deaths caused by law enforcement are so much lower. And there is less crime in those nations as well.

Of course they are different societies. Their cultures also aren't plagued by the extreme racism that exists here. We have a big problem and we need acknowledge it and do something about it.
 
homeytennis said:
I haven't followed it that closely either but Floyd had significant coronary artery disease, smoked, used alcohol, and was high on meth and fentanyl and appeared to be in a delirious state when arrested. Plus the cop was using an approved measure (at that time) makes it a heavy lift for the prosecution if the jurors follow the law.
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Also, your airway and trachea are in the front of your neck not the back. While kneeling on the back of the neck will be painful, it will not cut off the airway, hence this being a long standing method of subduing a perp with no deaths as a result.

Couple that with the fact that he was almost immediately saying he couldn't breathe (aĺl the while talking), establishes that he was going into cardiac arrest due to the drugs in his system as the scene unfolded.

Also, Chauvin knew he was being recorded and had a crowd of witnesses. There is no way that this LEO would have performed an act of any kind that would lead to death with literally all eyes on him.

This case, like many others these days is racially motivated and anti-cop. Hallmarks of the woke society.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
No it's not BS, and I'd wager a lot of these murders involve police with combat experience who have underlying PTSD issues. That's why we need to mandate psychological evaluations for everyone hired as a police officer.
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Either your both are stupid, which is likely, or you are both deliberately ignoring that part of Thrillers post I called BS. Yes, police training can be better, yes police can do better at not escalating, no a vast majority of police aren't power hungry racists who couldn't even get a job at Mcdonalds.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
One further word about the police academies. Some of you might know from news reports that in these academies, officers are TRAINED to shoot to kill. That is when they pull their gun they are TRAINED to shoot in the area of largest mass, that is the chest. In other words at the heart, which obviously will kill someone. That needs to change.
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Per my previous post. I guess you are just stupid.
 
I look at the way he seemed while in the store. Did it look like he was likely to die anytime soon? No inherent medical condition was poised to kill him after he left that store. If the cop does not kneel on his neck for 9+ minutes, he would not have died that day.
 
Red said:
I look at the way he seemed while in the store. Did it look like he was likely to die anytime soon? No inherent medical condition was poised to kill him after he left that store. If the cop does not kneel on his neck for 9+ minutes, he would not have died that day.
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You are very likely right.
 
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