Do you still want to see Big Al shipped?

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by JazzyD, Jan 16, 2013.

Keep Big Al or not?

  1. Yes, I would like to retain him, paying him his current salary

    3 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. No way!

    35 vote(s)
    48.6%
  3. Yes, but for less money

    33 vote(s)
    45.8%
  4. Foye is fools gold!

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  1. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Banned

    15,636
    514
    198
    May 26, 2010
    btw where is the jefferson is fools gold option
     
  2. IUhoosiers

    IUhoosiers Member

    108
    5
    18
    Dec 10, 2012
    If we keep big AL, than Millsap must go. Kanter must get 30+ minutes for us to go deep in the playoffs. Remember playoffs is all about defense.
     
  3. green

    green Well-Known Member

    8,477
    498
    168
    May 27, 2010
    If you can get Al for 8 million and not more, and he is willing to come off the bench, then keep him. He is the perfect "instant offense" bench player. You want 1-2 players on the bench that can create for themselves and the rest defensive players to hold leads. Al and Burks are those players. You put three defensive players around them and they are the best bench in the league. Three good defenders, and then on offense throw it in to Al, he holds it for 15 secs, if he can't get a shot off, out to Burks so he can get to the FT line.

    If Al wants more, or wants to start, see ya.
     
  4. Crawlnstall

    Crawlnstall Well-Known Member

    1,116
    170
    113
    Nov 28, 2012
    I agree 100%. I'd love to see him come off of the bench and work with the second unit, especially if the second unit has some good defenders to help him. Kanter and favors need to start. If Jefferson can accept this role then cool, if not lets trade him
     
  5. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    14,022
    11,105
    428
    May 27, 2010
    Al Jefferson's role is pretty black and white. His strength is being 'the guy'. Either he's you're main offensive guy and you pound the ball through him or he's not. He's not an accessory piece. He's not someone who pops off the bench for instant offense. This is why some of the ill-conceived Team USAs and other 'super teams' where it's assumed that you can make an amalgamation of talented players and simply plug them into new roles and be successful. That's what we're assuming we'll do with Al. We won't get get the same type/rate of production. The option is quite simply between A. keep Al and have him be the focal-point of our offense or B. let him go. It's that easy. There really isn't any real-world middle ground.
     
  6. Brown Notes

    Brown Notes Well-Known Member

    2,367
    172
    63
    May 30, 2011
    The evidence points to the contrary, Al has been generally better playing @ 30 minutes than over 35, is on record being more for the team winning than his own court time, and also has said that Enes will be a star & hopes to still be on the team when he is.

    Al will dominate the offense more or less when he's on the court, but that doesn't mean he has to have the ball run through him all the time or that he has to play star or even starter minutes. IMO this guy could be devastating off the bench if he's willing to do it. Way better than Bench Sap.
     
  7. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

    20,208
    4,819
    263
    May 27, 2010
    I've long said that Al off the bench + heavily policed on his defensive effort would be fine with me.

    It's the $$$ that has always turned me off. I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 teams will be willing to pay more than I would. My cap is a front-loaded 3 year deal averaging $10 mil/year. I'd also tell him at the signing that I was envisioning him far more in a complementary role.

    In other words, I don't see myself being happy with any likely outcome. Shipping him out is preferable.
     
    orangello likes this.
  8. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    14,022
    11,105
    428
    May 27, 2010
    I'm not talking about minutes played -- I'm talking about role played. Whether Al is playing 30 minutes or 35 minutes (he's averaging 33, FWIW) for us is irrelevant as he's our starter and centerpiece of our offense. Whether or not he likes Enes and wants him to succeed or not is completely independent of the discussion of whether or not Al would be good in that role, and not simply whether or not he'd accept it. This is all irrelevant as well because Corbin will not bring him off the bench. We have this idea of resigning him based on hypotheticals that have never been implemented nor is there evidence that they would be. Jefferson would start his entire contract. Millsap has never been a focal-point, which makes it much more appropriate to compare how he would do off the bench in comparison to as a starter. We've also seen him off the bench behind Boozer (for much longer than we should have because, like Al, we should have known sooner that it was time to move forward). But, alas, I'm not a Al vs. Millsap guy, I'm just a Favors and Kanter need to tart and get minutes in any way possible guy.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello Well-Known Member

    14,946
    786
    198
    Jun 19, 2011
    Big Al is not going to be coming off the bench for the Jazz for at least another 3 seasons. I do not trust Corbin enough to bring him off the bench even if Kanter and Favors prove to be better players at the time. If you don't believe me just look at Hayward vs Foye.
     
  10. orangello

    orangello Well-Known Member

    14,946
    786
    198
    Jun 19, 2011
    I wish I read this first before I posted because that almost perfectly says what I wanted to say.
     
  11. JazzyD

    JazzyD Active Member

    500
    31
    28
    Mar 6, 2012
    The vote numbers are much closer than they would've been before the season started. It seems that more people are coming around to the idea of Al staying.
     
  12. addictionary

    addictionary Well-Known Member

    13,163
    1,492
    228
    Mar 21, 2012
    Yeppers.
     
  13. Nate505

    Nate505 Modstapo Lite Staff Member

    8,018
    1,212
    233
    May 25, 2010
    I don't even object to Al's play that much, but for the sake of the youth I'd rather see him go or come off the bench, and I don't think the latter is happening.
     
  14. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Banned

    15,636
    514
    198
    May 26, 2010

    in blowouts al does not have to play
     
  15. Brown Notes

    Brown Notes Well-Known Member

    2,367
    172
    63
    May 30, 2011
    Waiting for the part where a point is made.
     
  16. DutchJazzer

    DutchJazzer Banned

    15,636
    514
    198
    May 26, 2010
    it is logical do i have to explain it.

    of course big als minutes are lower on avg when jazz win.
    because blowout certain games he did not have to come of the bench in the 4th.
    so it is kinda skewed
     
  17. Brown Notes

    Brown Notes Well-Known Member

    2,367
    172
    63
    May 30, 2011
    So you are saying his play is not better with less court time? Sitting out the 4th would not affect earlier play, I'm talking about taking him out earlier in the 1st and 3rd.
     
  18. theNBAnerd

    theNBAnerd Well-Known Member

    1,705
    115
    63
    Jun 2, 2010
    that logic ignores the ways in which the two guys are different. if you make your decision based on money/trade value terms, you'll forget that the two guys are very different in basketball terms.

    paul plays better off the ball, defends more positions and can help you win games without eating 20 possessions. al is good - even elite - at one thing, but he has to have the ball in his hands for that one thing to matter. so the question should be, which guy can still be on this team and not impede the progress of favors and kanter? as long as al is here, neither of those two is going to have enough of an impact on games to figure out how to get better. the same isn't necessarily true of paul.

    does an al/paul tandem get us to the top of the mountain? quite obviously not. does a favors/kanter duo do it? we don't know yet, but we won't know as long as al is on the team using 20 possessions a game and bringing several others to a grinding halt.
     
    infection likes this.
  19. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

    20,830
    1,538
    113
    Jun 3, 2010
    In theory, yes.
    I'm still not happy with the offense completely stopping once the ball is passed inside to Al. But Jefferson and Favors could be a decent combo, given that we probably won't be attracting great FA's. And I think Kanter is still pretty raw. Neither he nor Favors are much of a force offensively, so having Al gives the Jazz a legitimate scoring threat. If the FO is thinking of keeping either Jefferson or Millsap, my bet is on Al. Not the perfect scenario, IMO, but the one I think is most likely to happen.

    I've also been impressed with the improvement DeMarre has made from last season to this one. I no longer cringe when he shoots. I wonder if the Jazz are thinking about keeping him as a starter at SF. Marvin could come off the bench or the Jazz could trade his contract.

    I agree with the Foye observation. I'd rather have Burks or Hayward start at SG.


    One other thought on Big Al: you can really tell he's been mentoring both Enes and Derrick. In the absence of a legitimate big man coach, perhaps he's worth keeping around, especially if he's willing to see his minutes decrease gradually as Kanter and Favors get more. The one thing we all forget is that the Jazz need 3 good bigs (96 mins / 3 = 32). Lose Al AND Paul and suddenly the jazz strength becomes a weakness, unless a very good big can be signed to replace them. With the Warriors and Jazz making strong playoff pushes, it's likely a draft pick (both likely in the late teens/early 20's) won't be helping us much, other than end-of-bench depth.
     
  20. JGolds

    JGolds Well-Known Member

    1,661
    234
    118
    Sep 5, 2012
    thanks for agreeing have said this all along. i feel bad that millsap looks like the odd man out but honestly he looks like the one leaving. we need three good bigs. al fav and kan are all basiclly interchangeable. and we have to pick either sap or al or we could loose both, and then we will be left looking for a FA to sign to be our other big, and i can honestly say, i liekt he way al looks more then the other bigs in FA.
     

Share This Page