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Elijah Millsap: Lindsey in exit interview: “if u say one more word, I’ll cut your Black *** and send you back to Louisiana”.

RandyForRubio said:
Even if he remembers it differently, he’s wrong because the accuser is always right.

That’s a hell of a take man.
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Some people care more about personal justification, some care about moving forward and getting things done. Where do you stand on that?

Sure, that's a terrible take on your words, just like yours were a terrible take on mine.
 
RandyForRubio said:
I discussed that later, but in general, the same reasons people have lied for the last millennia. Attention, clout, the usual. Some people just lie.

I don’t know the truth. You don’t know the truth. What you think are facts are only assumptions. It would be wise to remember that.
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What sort of potential positive attention or clout comes to Millsap from this?

I agree we don't have the actual facts, and are not likely to get them. That doesn't make all possibilities equally likely.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
But yeah, I would probably fire him, especially if no players are coming out to defend him. Utah has to be more diligent about these things to help their image.
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I think this is extreme without any further corraborating evidence/statements from others. As a matter of principle, I'm strongly against significantly damaging somebody's career and reputation based on "what looks good", when no wrong-doing has any evidence behind it besides a single individual's accusation. I also don't know if it sends the greatest message to other talented individuals currently working for or might consider working for Ryan - 'If anybody ever accuses you of any wrongdoing, we will fire you - no further questions asked and no further evidence needed'.

That having been said, I also don't think Elijah's accusations should just be ignored. This should be looked into. Maybe other former/current players should be reached out to and asked if they had any similar experiences, with the promise of privacy/anonymity. If others speak up about things DL has said, or if, somehow, corraborating evidence comes out, then yes, fire him. That level of bigotry can't be tolerated in any organization, let alone a professional basketball team.

What I also think should be done is steps taken within the organization to ensure something like this straight up cannot happen going forward. How that gets implemented, I don't know. But I certainly believe there's a middle ground between "Fire the accused" and "Ignore the accuser".
 
What I don't like is when people make these accusations, years after the fact and no one else can corroborate them. A lot of the MeToo situations are like that -- for instance, Biden's accuser Tara Reade (no one could corroborate it but her mother who is dead and wasn't there in any case -- she supposedly told one other person who wasn't present either). Or the recent one related to Cuomo -- everyone on his staff said her accusations are false. And all of these are words or actions that can be misinterpreted. I stick to the old kindergarten aphorism: "Sticks and stones can hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Sure there are words that have more power, like the N-word and they do reflect the unconscious beliefs of a person, but we have to get past this "politically-correct" nonsense, which in itself is an unconscious form of hostility. Does EM harbor hostility towards the Jazz, not only because he felt he wasn't given a proper chance (I think he got preferred treatment because of his brother), or maybe his brother felt slighted because he turned out to be the better of Favors and PM, and the Jazz chose Favors. Who knows. It seems, however, to come out years later with something like this is inappropriate and simply lashing out against someone because of personal grudges. It also shows lack of character on the part of someone for not confronting the situation when it occurred.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Almost no one isn't no one. Any lives destroyed by an accusation alone is too much. Or are you espousing straight utilitarianism in these scenarios? it is fine to hurt or even destroy a few as long as it is better for more people in the long run? Or are you better than that?
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Straight utilitarianism? No, but we need to consider likelihoods. Besides, I already offered what could be an easy path forward for Lindsey where he keeps his job, if he really wants it.

Still, that you even bring in "straight utilitarianism" means acknowledging that there is a differential in harms here.

LogGrad98 said:
To be fair, I might have gone at this a little hard, but it is because I have a couple of close friends who were directly impact by cancel culture. I will not discuss their situation because I told them I would not, but I will say they were both teachers, emphasis on "were". So when it is a real thing to a real person you know some of the ability to stand back and just try to brush it aside as if it isn't a thing goes out the window.
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I don't know anything about their individual situations. I do know that other teachers have done things like changing school districts, when the level of national attention was low, but it may not be possible for your friends.

LogGrad98 said:
I made no claims about the accusation itself. Anything along those lines are words put in my mouth, and you did that here as well, put words in my mouth. I was purely speaking out about cancel culture and the need people feel to immediately take any accusation at face value and be judge, jury, and executioner regardless of what the actual facts might be.
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Too often, I see "cancel culture" used as an attempt to distract from real issues, to complain about the complainers. I appreciate that might not be your intention.
 
infection said:
But the implication, I'm assuming, is that you're concluding, among many hypotheticals, that the latter is entirely off the table, thus only one response (generally speaking) is appropriate.
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If he's lying, Millsap (who still has an NBA-related business) is basically killing any possible future within the NBA. That considerably reduces the chances of "the latter".
 
One Brow said:
What sort of potential positive attention or clout comes to Millsap from this?

I agree we don't have the actual facts, and are not likely to get them. That doesn't make all possibilities equally likely.
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Well, we’re all talking about him for the first time in years. There are people that want a high ranking individual on an NBA team fired because of his accusation. That’s both positive attention and power.

Again, not saying that’s what is happening, just possible reasons. At the end of the day, I have no idea why someone would lie. I can’t relate to that. But, we’ve seen it happen recently. We saw an actor orchestrate a “hate crime” for attention. That doesn’t mean it always happens, but it also shows us why we can’t dismiss the possibility.

Just as it seems odd that Millsap would lie, it seems odd that Lindsey would do this once over a multiple decade NBA career and no other players have come forward (yet) to say something similar happened to them. It seems odd that Millsap wouldn’t even tell his teammates/friends on the team this happened. There’s a lot that seems odd, so to me, it seems that waiting for more information before coming to a conclusion seems the best course.
 
framer said:
The is the way things SHOULD work, but that is not the world we live in today. You think Milsap is going to let this rest? He chose this outlet an manner purposely. If he was interested in a learning experience, he could have contacted Lindsey directly at any point in the last 6 years.
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A person who feels demeaned does not owe the demean-er a private consultation, and it's interesting that you think what Millsap wants should inversely affect what Lindsey does.
 
LogGrad98 said:
No, making comments like that unwarranted insult is what makes you a keyboard warrior, YOU are the one who drew the connection to racism because it is the only way you can justify your behavior. You are all tough and childish behind your keyboard, instead of engaging people on an intellectual level with the strength of argument. But thanks for making assumptions and confirming exactly what I said. Proof is in the (reported) pudding there.

Another thing is that you take the stance of "agree with me or you are the worst kind of racist in the world who just wants to bring back slavery" or they are stupid or morons, or fat, or slobs, or whatever insult you need to sling to make yourself feel superior and put down the other person so you don't have to actually address what is being said. Textbook ad hominem, you are the master of that. And that is a sad tired schtick. But I have learned to not expect any more from you. You are incapable of actual discussion, or any level of nuance within a discussion. Your way or the highway. Pathetic really.
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This is hilarious considering I'm the person who has wrote out the most clear and critical arguments here regarding this, and most other topics.
 
RandyForRubio said:
Well, we’re all talking about him for the first time in years. There are people that want a high ranking individual on an NBA team fired because of his accusation. That’s both positive attention and power.

Again, not saying that’s what is happening, just possible reasons. At the end of the day, I have no idea why someone would lie. I can’t relate to that. But, we’ve seen it happen recently. We saw an actor orchestrate a “hate crime” for attention. That doesn’t mean it always happens, but it also shows us why we can’t dismiss the possibility.

Just as it seems odd that Millsap would lie, it seems odd that Lindsey would do this once over a multiple decade NBA career and no other players have come forward (yet) to say something similar happened to them. It seems odd that Millsap wouldn’t even tell his teammates/friends on the team this happened. There’s a lot that seems odd, so to me, it seems that waiting for more information before coming to a conclusion seems the best course.
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Danny Ferry would have never been caught if it didnt get recorded. It's not a logical argument "If he hasnt been caught by now, then is it really him?"
 
One Brow said:
If he's lying, Millsap (who still has an NBA-related business) is basically killing any possible future within the NBA. That considerably reduces the chances of "the latter".
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There's still plenty of ground where it could have not happened or could have not happened in any degree to be construed that way, without Millsap lying. I'm not saying that's the case, but I think we're getting too all-or-nothing here where whether it happened like this or not hinges on Millsap being a liar or not, and I just don't see that as necessarily being the case.

Then again, my view on motivation and the definition of lying may be drastically different than many other people because I work in a profession I'm almost never getting the truth, but would be hesitant to label a lot of that as 'lying.'
 
Is there anything more predictable than this thread dragging RandyForRubio and Beer out of their slumbers?
 
mongoose01 said:
If all he wants is to “shine a light” why even name names?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Because it gets people's attention, as evidenced by reality.

Reading through this thread, I have to be honest. Even though I'm firmly against firing DL based strictly on an accusation (I've made my thoughts clear in a post from about an hour ago), I find it a bit uncomfortable how quickly people are rushing to throw dirt on Elijah's motives/character.

The dude could very well be telling the truth, and have good intentions.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
This is hilarious considering I'm the person who has wrote out the most clear and critical arguments here regarding this, and most other topics.
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No you wrote out your manifesto, and did so while insulting everyone else. Hardly a reasoned argument.
 
framer said:
I mean if there was a chance you misheard him, and you come forward six years later, still **** him.
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To be clear when I say “it was six years ago”: I’m saying our memories degrade over time.

But the more I think about it, I’m not sure how valid that point is.
 
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