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Energy Independence a Reality?

One Brow said:
The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally. If 80% of the houses in a neighborhood go solar, suddenly tiles stop looking so good.
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I guess progressives actually know nothing about aesthetics if they think they are culturally, that is to say "norminatively" determined by top down management or even herd reactions.

" pretty " is not the same thing as politically correct nor an issue settled by consensus. It's how someone individually feels. For an explanation about this from Russian literature from the the 1920s look up a book called "We". It took some artful dodging to get this published. . . .because politically inconvenient truths don't get much play under authoritarian idealism of any kind.

that said, asphalt shingles are heavy, and wear out all too soon, and are subject to wind damage and tiles might be heavy but they can last a hundred years and give good insulation especially against the hot desert sun, and once they're in place they are better than money in the bank. Until solar panels can beat that I'm gonna go for a heat pump system and put any solar I get on ground level. Maybe build chicken coops or something and put solar on those roofs.
 
babe said:
" pretty " is not the same thing as politically correct nor an issue settled by consensus. It's how someone individually feels.
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You post seems to indicate you feel there is some contradiction between "The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally." and what you say above. As far as I can tell, no such contradiction exists.
 
Beantown said:
Do you know why you have such cheap power? Because Utah has about a million coal power plants. You guys provide power for most of California too.

Yea you have cheap energy but you also have the some of the WORST air quality in the world. So you can take your precious 0.9 KWH but don't cry when the EPA is telling Utah its unsafe to raise children or for pregnant women which just recently happened.

A little research goes a long way before you start spewing your "knowledge".
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Don't you think you should get your facts straight before using made up junk to call me an idiot with?

Nothing produces energy for $0.03/kWh; stop being so butthurt about it.
 
franklin said:
Don't you think you should get your facts straight before using made up junk to call me an idiot with?

Nothing produces energy for $0.03/kWh; stop being so butthurt about it.
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Solar does with Sunrun. Our company does it everyday.
 
One Brow said:
You post seems to indicate you feel there is some contradiction between "The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally." and what you say above. As far as I can tell, no such contradiction exists.
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yah, fair enough to explain your problem with my inferences. What I'd really like to see you do is go get Eugene Zamyatin's book "We" and read it. George Orwell read it, and reworked it into 1984 while apparently failing to understand Zamyatin's ideas about art and humanity.

yes there is a sort of consensus within cultures about what is art, and what humanity is conceptually. . . . but Zamyatin's point is my point here. The root of art or humanity is not something defined by any "Benefactor" or government or organization, or even any existing "culture" or consensus at any point in space or time by any group of people. . . . it is as individual as a person's drawing of his/her own breath, and thinking his/her own thoughts. . . . if ever that can be achieved creatively. . . .

and by the way,one of my subsidiary theories of aesthetics is just this: one man's junk is another man's treasure. And there will always be some individual who just hates the way all the houses are built on his street if they all have one architectural feature the same.
 
Beantown said:
Solar prices are dropping like a rock and utility rates keep climbing. Within 10 years they will both hit equilibrium. Then it will be dumb not to have it.
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I have a buddy who works in solar, has a master's in engineering physics from a top engineering school studying molten salt reactors. He now works for a solar company in silicon valley, tells me every time we hang out that he's worried about his job because solar just isn't a viable option. It's totally subsidized by the government and idealistic rich people. In no way shape or form is it making money or close to being a replacement for oil.
 
larryselbows said:
I have a buddy who works in solar, has a master's in engineering physics from a top engineering school studying molten salt reactors. He now works for a solar company in silicon valley, tells me every time we hang out that he's worried about his job because solar just isn't a viable option. It's totally subsidized by the government and idealistic rich people. In no way shape or form is it making money or close to being a replacement for oil.
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There are a lot people in this situation. . . . realizing that their jobs are ultimately in the hands of competitive economics.

I knew someone in the seventies who was pretty brilliant and going full throttle on the tar sands of Utah/Wyoming. Way back then I was believing that solar energy was the way to go. Huge oil crisis. We saw gasoline go from 25 cents to 60 cents a gallon almost overnight on the say-so of OPEC.

Never has been a pretty picture having monopoly economics pushing the price limits to just about the point where some competitive resource might find air in the market.

And yes, we have enough oil for generations, and we have the monopolists with their hands on all the power of government. However, the major oil companies have been investing in research in other areas, preparing to control them as well.

In the seventies, if crude oil had stayed at $30/bbl we would have had some coal gasification plants as well as tar sands development. Solar will be used especially in remote areas. Like wind, it will never be "the solution" on the macro scale.
 
Cold Fusion Babe!!!!!!

Actually, I think the plasma reactors will never come online. Can't say for sure about Cold Fusion, though. It is a real thing, and there's lots of ways we might make it feasible. It was deep sixed by the oil cartel.
 
larryselbows said:
I have a buddy who works in solar, has a master's in engineering physics from a top engineering school studying molten salt reactors. He now works for a solar company in silicon valley, tells me every time we hang out that he's worried about his job because solar just isn't a viable option. It's totally subsidized by the government and idealistic rich people. In no way shape or form is it making money or close to being a replacement for oil.
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-Your friend sounds like a really "smart" guy. Electricity generation by the creation of oil is a very small percentage. Oil is only used for heating which solar does not touch. Solar is only used for KWH creation like COAL plants do. This one comment about solar replacing oil makes no sense.

-Your smart friend might be working for solar manufacturing company which his job could very well be in jeopardy. Just like Solyndra solar manufacturing can't compete with Germany and Korea. I work for a Solar installer and financing company and we use German Bosch panels.

-Every energy source used by America is heavily subsidized. If you think oil and coal are not heavily subsidized to keep pricing down then I have a rock to sell you.
 
babe said:
The root of art or humanity is not something defined by any "Benefactor" or government or organization, or even any existing "culture" or consensus at any point in space or time by any group of people. . . . it is as individual as a person's drawing of his/her own breath, and thinking his/her own thoughts. . . . if ever that can be achieved creatively. . . .
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I don't disagree with any of that. I don't think you disagree that our culture has a huge influence in shaping us, either.
 
Beantown said:
-Your friend sounds like a really "smart" guy. Electricity generation by the creation of oil is a very small percentage. Oil is only used for heating which solar does not touch. Solar is only used for KWH creation like COAL plants do. This one comment about solar replacing oil makes no sense.

-Your smart friend might be working for solar manufacturing company which his job could very well be in jeopardy. Just like Solyndra solar manufacturing can't compete with Germany and Korea. I work for a Solar installer and financing company and we use German Bosch panels.

-Every energy source used by America is heavily subsidized. If you think oil and coal are not heavily subsidized to keep pricing down then I have a rock to sell you.
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I'll be honest, I don't know enough about solar to turn this into a debate, I'm merely parroting what my buddy tells me. As far as solar replacing oil, I was responding to comments about renewables and the eventual exhaustion of hydrocarbons.

For what it's worth, my friend is actually quite intelligent. Thanks for noticing!
 
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The Regulations on Fracking are going to control how quickly our economic could boom.

-If we are really after energy independence, then Nuclear fisson plants are viable and we have a huge supply of radioactive materials.
 
larryselbows said:
I'll be honest, I don't know enough about solar to turn this into a debate, I'm merely parroting what my buddy tells me. As far as solar replacing oil, I was merely responding to comments about renewables and the eventual exhaustion of hydrocarbons.

For what it's worth, my friend is actually quite intelligent. Thanks for noticing!
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My guess is he works or a solar manufacturing company and they are competing with Germany and South Korea which is basically impossible.
 
Beantown said:
My guess is he works or a solar manufacturing company and they are competing with Germany and South Korea which is basically impossible.
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I'm not sure what the company does specifically, he's in Research and Development, so he doesn't do the manufacturing portion directly.
 
One Brow said:
So, he's worried we'll stop subsidizing solar, and keep subsidizing oil?
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How do we subsidize oil? The only thing I've found is paying them to extract old mine shaft methane gas because it's considered an air pollutant and we figure they can do it the cheapest. The only "subsidy" is making the product of their environmental cleanup profitable.

I also believe the carbon sequestration stuff is another subsidy where we pay the price for big oil's EOR that they currently pay themselves. But I don't think we're doing much if any of this at all yet.
 
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