Energy Independence a Reality?

[franklin]

I will show you an example. The typical Massachusetts customer pays somewhere between 16-18 cents per KWH with NSTAR. With Solar/Sunrun they can pay anywhere from .03 cents to about 12 cents per KWH. It all depends on how efficient their roof is. But minimally they should see a 20-30% savings their very first month. That solar rate is also locked in so their saving keeps increasing as the local utilities rates will keep rising. Average utilities rise about 3-6% a year

Additionally states don't charge taxes on clean energy so most should see an additional 10 bucks or so each month too.

Producing solar power way up north out of the sunbelt for less than the cheapest, oldest, dirtiest low cost coal fired plants cost of production? I declare ********.

Here in Utah we pay $0.09/kWh because we have some common sense. Rates have gone nowhere in 40 years. Move to a state that burdens your power bill into the ground, creating a wake of poverty under the guise of progress, then yeah, it makes all the sense in the world to get away from that.

 

[Beantown]

I'll wait 'til they develop solar "panels" that are the actual shingles that are on your house and don't **** it up aesthetically. I see that time coming in the next 10-20 or so years.

WTF so why did you PM me?

Also I think solar shingles are awesome. The issue they double to triple the price for them right now so you would have virtually no ROI so they make absolutely no sense. Also I think solar is cool and as long is its designed accurately it looks great. Also most home solar can go on the back or sides of home so you can never see it form the street.

Looks better than all the power lines draped across a neighborhood, not to mention the smog that fills your city.

 

[Beantown]

Producing solar power way up north out of the sunbelt for less than the cheapest, oldest, dirtiest low cost coal fired plants cost of production? I declare ********.

Here in Utah we pay $0.09/kWh because we have some common sense. Rates have gone nowhere in 40 years. Move to a state that burdens your power bill into the ground, creating a wake of poverty under the guise of progress, then yeah, it makes all the sense in the world to get away from that.

Solar is cheaper in those areas I promise. Why do you think companies like Sunrun, Vivint, Solar City etc are kicking so much *** right now? Our company is growing by about 200% per year because its like selling candy to a fat kid.

Do you know why you have such cheap power? Because Utah has about a million coal power plants. You guys provide power for most of California too.

Yea you have cheap energy but you also have the some of the WORST air quality in the world. So you can take your precious 0.9 KWH but don't cry when the EPA is telling Utah its unsafe to raise children or for pregnant women which just recently happened.

A little research goes a long way before you start spewing your "knowledge".

 

[One Brow]

I'll wait 'til they develop solar "panels" that are the actual shingles that are on your house and don't **** it up aesthetically. I see that time coming in the next 10-20 or so years.

The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally. If 80% of the houses in a neighborhood go solar, suddenly tiles stop looking so good.

 

[babe]

The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally. If 80% of the houses in a neighborhood go solar, suddenly tiles stop looking so good.

I guess progressives actually know nothing about aesthetics if they think they are culturally, that is to say "norminatively" determined by top down management or even herd reactions.

" pretty " is not the same thing as politically correct nor an issue settled by consensus. It's how someone individually feels. For an explanation about this from Russian literature from the the 1920s look up a book called "We". It took some artful dodging to get this published. . . .because politically inconvenient truths don't get much play under authoritarian idealism of any kind.

that said, asphalt shingles are heavy, and wear out all too soon, and are subject to wind damage and tiles might be heavy but they can last a hundred years and give good insulation especially against the hot desert sun, and once they're in place they are better than money in the bank. Until solar panels can beat that I'm gonna go for a heat pump system and put any solar I get on ground level. Maybe build chicken coops or something and put solar on those roofs.

 

[One Brow]

" pretty " is not the same thing as politically correct nor an issue settled by consensus. It's how someone individually feels.

You post seems to indicate you feel there is some contradiction between "The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally." and what you say above. As far as I can tell, no such contradiction exists.

 

[franklin]

Do you know why you have such cheap power? Because Utah has about a million coal power plants. You guys provide power for most of California too.

Yea you have cheap energy but you also have the some of the WORST air quality in the world. So you can take your precious 0.9 KWH but don't cry when the EPA is telling Utah its unsafe to raise children or for pregnant women which just recently happened.

A little research goes a long way before you start spewing your "knowledge".

Don't you think you should get your facts straight before using made up junk to call me an idiot with?

Nothing produces energy for $0.03/kWh; stop being so butthurt about it.

 

[Beantown]

Don't you think you should get your facts straight before using made up junk to call me an idiot with?

Nothing produces energy for $0.03/kWh; stop being so butthurt about it.

Solar does with Sunrun. Our company does it everyday.

 

[babe]

You post seems to indicate you feel there is some contradiction between "The aesthetics is just what you are used to, culturally." and what you say above. As far as I can tell, no such contradiction exists.

yah, fair enough to explain your problem with my inferences. What I'd really like to see you do is go get Eugene Zamyatin's book "We" and read it. George Orwell read it, and reworked it into 1984 while apparently failing to understand Zamyatin's ideas about art and humanity.

yes there is a sort of consensus within cultures about what is art, and what humanity is conceptually. . . . but Zamyatin's point is my point here. The root of art or humanity is not something defined by any "Benefactor" or government or organization, or even any existing "culture" or consensus at any point in space or time by any group of people. . . . it is as individual as a person's drawing of his/her own breath, and thinking his/her own thoughts. . . . if ever that can be achieved creatively. . . .

and by the way,one of my subsidiary theories of aesthetics is just this: one man's junk is another man's treasure. And there will always be some individual who just hates the way all the houses are built on his street if they all have one architectural feature the same.

 

[larryselbows]

Solar prices are dropping like a rock and utility rates keep climbing. Within 10 years they will both hit equilibrium. Then it will be dumb not to have it.

I have a buddy who works in solar, has a master's in engineering physics from a top engineering school studying molten salt reactors. He now works for a solar company in silicon valley, tells me every time we hang out that he's worried about his job because solar just isn't a viable option. It's totally subsidized by the government and idealistic rich people. In no way shape or form is it making money or close to being a replacement for oil.

 

[babe]

I have a buddy who works in solar, has a master's in engineering physics from a top engineering school studying molten salt reactors. He now works for a solar company in silicon valley, tells me every time we hang out that he's worried about his job because solar just isn't a viable option. It's totally subsidized by the government and idealistic rich people. In no way shape or form is it making money or close to being a replacement for oil.

There are a lot people in this situation. . . . realizing that their jobs are ultimately in the hands of competitive economics.

I knew someone in the seventies who was pretty brilliant and going full throttle on the tar sands of Utah/Wyoming. Way back then I was believing that solar energy was the way to go. Huge oil crisis. We saw gasoline go from 25 cents to 60 cents a gallon almost overnight on the say-so of OPEC.

Never has been a pretty picture having monopoly economics pushing the price limits to just about the point where some competitive resource might find air in the market.

And yes, we have enough oil for generations, and we have the monopolists with their hands on all the power of government. However, the major oil companies have been investing in research in other areas, preparing to control them as well.

In the seventies, if crude oil had stayed at $30/bbl we would have had some coal gasification plants as well as tar sands development. Solar will be used especially in remote areas. Like wind, it will never be "the solution" on the macro scale.

 

[Scat]

Nuclear fusion baby!