Favs Replacements

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Handlogten's Heros, May 14, 2019.

  1. Wes Mantooth

    Wes Mantooth Well-Known Member

    Jul 14, 2015
    But we did re-sign Favors. Because we knew Bradley blows and wasn’t qualified or ready to play any sort of meaningful NBA minutes.
    LogGrad98 and Lakers_Slapper like this.
  2. kabenac

    kabenac Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2010
    I wouldn't mind signing Marcus Morris away from Boston.
  3. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

    Jun 8, 2010
    Absolutely it’s a straw man. Your original post insinuated that my criticism is based on him not nailing every pick. Which clearly isn’t the case. If the Jazz aren’t going to score in free agency then they cannot have misses in the draft. Lindsey hasn’t just erred in late first round picks, but also mid first and lottery picks too.
    Lakers_Slapper likes this.
  4. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2010
    No, because they couldn't sign any other good PF
  5. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2010
    I don't think the selection of Bradley and the signing of Udoh need to be so tightly linked in some narrative. When Udoh became available, and the FO understood what he'd bring to the team, they signed him. They kept him around because he remained a better player than Bradley at the defensive end (our focus) + brought a ******** to team culture. Udoh's sticking power and Bradley's readiness are independent variables.
    Ellis269 likes this.
  6. silesian

    silesian Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2010
    Kinda irrelevant. They drafted him knowing they were going to acquire a backup 5 while he develops. Sometimes does not matter whether the chicken or egg came first. It was part of a coherent plan.
    NAOS likes this.
  7. jimmy eat jazz

    jimmy eat jazz Well-Known Member

    Jun 25, 2010
    You are correct, I apologize. My post was more directed toward those who hammer on DL for not nailing late first round draft picks as evidence of his lack of competence, which strikes me as a incredibly silly argument, and not a straw man. Your post was more limited in scope, and you were not implying he should nail every pick, so, I guess straw man.

    Still, for me, the issue is not how GMs do in a vacuum, it's how they do relative to other GMs. No GM nails every pick, none. For example, Hinkey whiffed on Okafor, Noel, Fultz, and arguably Saric. I'm guessing you can go down every team and find multiple draft picks that didn't pan out.

    Also, one has to look at how other potential picks in the same range, which might have been selected by the GM, have done. In other words, if you team's pick doesn't pan out, but then neither did the picks who might have reasonably been thought to be the opportunity cost for your pick, then that's just a bad draft class, not bad GMing.

    Nor is the correct frame of reference a team, and GM, who got lucky with late 1st or 2nd round draft picks that significantly outperformed expectations. Sure, there's some skill there, but also a tremendous amount of luck.

    One thing we don't see in nearly any of the critiques of DL is consideration of the above types of context.
  8. JFFR

    JFFR Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2011
    Everyone is wrong.

    BREAKING NEWS - You heard it hear first!

    This summer's big free agent signing will be Paul Millsap. He's not worth a max, so the Nuggets will have to wave him. The rest of the league will offer Paul two years and DL will offer him 3.

    He's coming home.

    We won't make the playoffs, but at least I'll be able to look at that beautiful face.

    It would have been nice to get Harris of Mirotic, but we need to be realistic!
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  9. TheStormofWar

    TheStormofWar Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2010
    There is no way for the Jazz to bring in a Kemba or Harris without losing Favors. Simple as. If I were Utah and had to trade him, I would try my hardest to get him to a situation where he would be happy and has a good chance to succeed. We'd owe him that much.

    Utah has until July 5th to guarantee the deal for next year. Watch for that.
  10. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

    Jun 13, 2014
    I think they may actually keep him on his current number. They don't have tax issues or dudes they need to retain. Why let him go? If I am them I'd rather have him for one year and $30M than 2/40 or something like that. He's pretty important to them.
    Ellis269 likes this.
  11. RickyStan

    RickyStan Active Member

    Nov 11, 2018
    Well right, but they will be much, much cheaper.

    Looking at Javale's numbers i was surprised at how similar to Favors' they are. Favors makes 17M and Javale has played for the league minimum for 4 consecutive seasons.

  12. stitches

    stitches Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2014
    The difference is that one of them plays out of position about half his minutes(and his stats suffer because of it) and still produces like this. McGee has no chance at playing PF as well as Favors does and Favors' stats at center are much better than McGee's. For whatever purpose you want McGee, Favors is much better player than him at that role.
    LoPo likes this.
  13. Ron Mexico

    Ron Mexico Well-Known Member Contributor

    May 26, 2010
    If we can sign a big name FA then we should obviously let Favors go to make cap room. If we can re do his contract to keep him and get the FA we should do that.

    If we can't sign a big name FA we should definitely keep Favors. He is very good and was our 3rd best player this season. On top of keeping him because he is good he is also worth something in a trade. If we dont get a good solid FA then we need to trade for one and Favors is the key player for that as well. You dont give up talent that good when you can trade him later. Plus we will need salary in a trade and Favors will have that.
    LoPo likes this.
  14. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    May 27, 2010
    Haven’t read the whole thread. Has anyone mentioned Booker? He can be a small ball 5 these days. And he sorta shoots the three. Sorta. Better than Favors and Gobert.
  15. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2010
    Has he rehabbed? He got injured in China.
  16. Ellis269

    Ellis269 Well-Known Member

    Jul 3, 2013
    One of the nice things about Favors is that he’s versatile enough to contribute as a backup 5 against teams that go small, or as a big, strong 4 against teams that play more with two traditional big men. I’d rather have him available if there's any way to keep him (at least for one more year.) Ultimately, I think that they absolutely need to try to get another All-Star caliber player if they can. If that means that they have to let Favors go to make the money work. . . then so be it. He's a strong player for the Jazz and a good player to have. I just think that they need to upgrade in other areas if they can - especially perimeter shooting.
  17. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

    Jun 13, 2014
    The season to keep Favors long term was last offseason... if we didn’t do a $18M a year salary he likely gets MLE money... teams didn’t have space or a big need so maybe you lock him into a 4/44-48M deal and it is more palatable to have him as a super backup. Maybe you have to squeeze Exum for a few dollars... but you also could have had it descend and be a better trade asset. We valued flexibility more... we chewed some of that up with Exums overpay and the Korver addition. There is a scenario where we could have kept him and signed a max free agent... that scenario is in the past.
    Jazzovic and NAOS like this.
  18. Lakers_Slapper

    Lakers_Slapper Well-Known Member

    Jul 15, 2010
    I don't think DL's earned criticism is defined to other GM's nailing every pick comparison. There's obviously his stupid trades to consider, as well as his lack of doing anything or nothing at all when it comes down to the off-season, including trading players instead of losing them without recouping any assets. Ok, DL came in 2012 as GM so let's get 2013 out of the way, because I know your about to talk about acquiring Gobert. He did a great job there, but that same year he failed drafting Trey Burke instead of CJ McCollum, Steven Adams or Giannis Antetokounmpo. (Maybe you have heard of him)
    5th pick, Dante Exum, can't blame him for this one as Exum was hyped up as a top 3 guy.
    23rd pick, Rodney Hood. Not a bad pick, but we lost him to Cleveland for Jae Crowder, who we all like but is only with us for the upcoming season at $7.8 million. You could argue that hood, with his youth and his talent would be better to build on.
    12th Pick, Jazz draft Trey Lyles.
    12th Pick, Jazz draft Taureen Prince. (Who is traded for George Hill in a 3 way trade between Pacers and Hawk. Pacers send Hill to the Jazz, Jazz send Prince to the Hawks, and Hawks send Jeff Teague to the Pacers.) Prince went on to excel with the Hawks, and Hill was eventually lost for nothing in free agency. So much for that.
    This was the highlight of DL's career and what got him his promotion. (Although there are many mistakes made before and after this one miraculous trade)
    Jazz acquire Donovan Mitchell from the Denver Nuggets for Trey Lyles, the 24th pick, 30th and 42nd pick acquiring Tony Bradley.
    21st pick, Grayson Allen (Nobody cares)

    Now that draft picks are out of the way, here's why he really sucks.
    -Trading Enes Kanter for pennies.
    Jazz receive Grant Jarrett (who?), Kendrick Perkins (he sucked and was immediately waived) as well as draft rights to Pleiss.
    -Not trading Hayward when common sense told us he was not staying with the Jazz.
    Not only were there rumors and past coaching ties to him and Boston, but his wife posted their baby wearing a shamrock onesy and commented on their soon to be departure. (2 months before the trade deadline). Why would DL not want to recoup talent?
    -Trading Alec Burks, and two 2nd round picks for a 37 year old Kyle Korver. Alec may have not been working out, but you can' negotiate any better than that? He doesn't value 2nd round pics at all.

    Long response to your question. I don't know the GM's that are nailing every draft, or every decision. But I can tell you that non of them are being promoted when they post a season with more failure's than their team did the year before, while holding a higher national expectation of success. I don't know of an organization that promotes GM's for being ok with their lack of ability to not build a title contending team. This is why Utah needs a championship. Even our own fans are accepting the fact that Ekpe Udoh, or Tony Bradley, or Kyle O'Quinn are acceptable improvements to our Roster.

    The reason other organizations don't talk smack about DL and his GM responsibilities is because he makes other teams better, instead of his own. They know they just have to smile and waive and eventually, he will give them their chance. He may not be our GM anymore, but I don't like the fact that he was promoted. That's unacceptable to me.
  19. infection

    infection Well-Known Member Staff Member 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    May 27, 2010
    What if, instead of trading Burks and two second rounders for Korver, we had just traded Exum?
    Hotdog and The Thriller like this.
  20. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2010
    C'mon now

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