Federal Court Overrules Brady's Suspension

[Keefe]

Wow, that is lenient. In the Olympics if you're caught taking performance enhancing drugs you're automatically stripped of your medals.


And to me that's how it should be. To me if what you did unlawfully gave you an advantage over your opponent, giving yourself an unfair advantage, then you simply should not be declared the winner.


Fair is fair.

I'd estimate 80% of NFL'ers use PED's.

 

[Keefe]

Well proving his guilt aside, on principle, if an athlete cheats with an intention to gain an unfair advantage, that athlete (or team) should be disqualified in my opinion.


That's how it's done in the Olympics and I believe that is the gold standard.

Yeah, the IOC is the real apex of sports' integrity in how they handle things.

 

[fishonjazz]

It still gave the Patriots the edge though right? Since it IS against the rule?


The final score was 28-24, I mean that to me is a pretty close game. If I were a Seahawks fan I'd be pissed about that.

Flopping is against the rules in basketball. Every team that ever won a chip should forfeit it right?

A ball got deflated..... And the game always brought up for the proof was a major blowout game that Brady didn't do much in..... The running game dominated. (This was a playoff game against indy)

I guarantee other teams messed with the psi in their football's. I know that other teams altered their football's and were caught doing it with no punishment. (Minnesota Vikings come to mind)

It was not a big enough cheat to punish too hard. Punishment should fit the crime.

Jaywalking is a crime. (Breaking the rules) So is murder. You don't hand out the same punishment for both.

 

[fishonjazz]

Wow, that is lenient. In the Olympics if you're caught taking performance enhancing drugs you're automatically stripped of your medals.


And to me that's how it should be. To me if what you did unlawfully gave you an advantage over your opponent, giving yourself an unfair advantage, then you simply should not be declared the winner.


Fair is fair.

Again. Flopping is against the rules in basketball.
Every player in the league should be fined, suspended, and the league should shut down right.
I mean they all cheated.
Fair is fair

 

[Stifle Tower]

Pretty dumb.
Also it was the nfl's retarded policy to allow each team to use, and manipulate, their own separate football's. They were just asking for someone to do something against the rules.
Nfl has no one to blame but themselves and they decide to go after arguably the best qb/player in nfl history.

Dumbasses

Agree. This is like kid's soccer where the home team has to provide 3 balls for the game. Does the NFL not have enough money to provide balls for each game? Maybe Goodell should contribute $100K from his inflated salary to do that. Problem solved!

 

[Stifle Tower]

Wow, that is lenient. In the Olympics if you're caught taking performance enhancing drugs you're automatically stripped of your medals.


And to me that's how it should be. To me if what you did unlawfully gave you an advantage over your opponent, giving yourself an unfair advantage, then you simply should not be declared the winner.


Fair is fair.

Whether lenient or not, that's the rule agreed upon by the owners and players. I'm not a Pats fan. In fact, I hate the Pats (not as much as the Ravens, Cowboys and Seahawks, but I still hate them). So to assess the same penalty as steroid use seems a bit strange. And remember, Brady's offense wasn't deflating the balls. It was primarily obstructing the investigation by not turning over his cell phone.

IINM, the Wells report concluded Brady was probably guilty. In the U.S. legal system, guilt has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt. The NFL should, but doesn't follow the same requirements - especially because Goodell gets to act as judge, jury and executioner. I think ANY penalty handed down by Goodell should be voided. It is inherently wrong that he gets to assess all penalties and then handle the appeals of those same decisions.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Flopping is against the rules in basketball. Every team that ever won a chip should forfeit it right?

A ball got deflated..... And the game always brought up for the proof was a major blowout game that Brady didn't do much in..... The running game dominated. (This was a playoff game against indy)

I guarantee other teams messed with the psi in their football's. I know that other teams altered their football's and were caught doing it with no punishment. (Minnesota Vikings come to mind)

It was not a big enough cheat to punish too hard. Punishment should fit the crime.

Jaywalking is a crime. (Breaking the rules) So is murder. You don't hand out the same punishment for both.

I think there are some key differences though:


1. Flopping you are in the middle of the court playing in front of cameras, everything is there for people to see, there are 3 refs, everything is out in the open. That's not the case with changing the ball pressure where NOBODY can see or judge what you did.


2. Flopping is less serious because each act only impacts 1 play. Changing the ball pressure gives you an advantage for the WHOLE GAME, again without anybody knowing what you've done, as opposed to flopping where millions are watching on the TV and can make up their own mind. That is a BIG difference.


In terms of the severity I think you have to look not at what the perpetrator did but HOW that action impacts the outcome of the game as a whole. Having that ball to use for the WHOLE GAME gives 1 team a clear and significant advantage over the other IMO.

 

[fishonjazz]

In terms of the severity I think you have to look not at what the perpetrator did but HOW that action impacts the outcome of the game as a whole. Having that ball to use for the WHOLE GAME gives 1 team a clear and significant advantage over the other IMO.

A. I'm glad that you are now agreeing that severity matters.

B. How do you know that the other team didn't do something to the football that they were using during the game?

C. There is still no proof that Brady even did anything

 

[ONE LOVE]

Whether lenient or not, that's the rule agreed upon by the owners and players. I'm not a Pats fan. In fact, I hate the Pats (not as much as the Ravens, Cowboys and Seahawks, but I still hate them). So to assess the same penalty as steroid use seems a bit strange. And remember, Brady's offense wasn't deflating the balls. It was primarily obstructing the investigation by not turning over his cell phone.

IINM, the Wells report concluded Brady was probably guilty. In the U.S. legal system, guilt has to be determined beyond a reasonable doubt. The NFL should, but doesn't follow the same requirements - especially because Goodell gets to act as judge, jury and executioner. I think ANY penalty handed down by Goodell should be voided. It is inherently wrong that he gets to assess all penalties and then handle the appeals of those same decisions.

OK but isn't that an indication of guilt? It's like pleading the 5th doesn't mean you're guilty but it does make you look mighty guilty.

 

[fishonjazz]

And to me that's how it should be. To me if what you did unlawfully gave you an advantage over your opponent, giving yourself an unfair advantage, then you simply should not be declared the winner.


Fair is fair.

And I will quote your post again.
You say that if you unlawfully (weird weird to use since inflating balls and flopping are obviously not against the law) do something to gain an advantage over your opponent that you should not be declared the winner.

Flopping is doing something against the rules to gain an advantage. Just like deflating a football. I would even say that flopping is more effective than deflating a football. Anyone can flop and get an advantage whether they are good players or not. Not anyone can deflate a football and get an advantage. If the Jacksonville qb deflated a football he would still suck..... He wouldn't suddenly become as good as Brady.

You never stated In your post that it matters if it's on or off the court, if there are cameras there to see it or not.

Fair is fair. Flopping is a way of gaining an unfair advantage. So is deflating a football.
Bring the hammer down of both types of offenses.
Fair is fair

 

[ONE LOVE]

A. I'm glad that you are now agreeing that severity matters.

B. How do you know that the other team didn't do something to the football that they were using during the game?

C. There is still no proof that Brady even did anything

I dunno who did what exactly as I'm not interested enough to be following it closely, but principally I refuse to believe a 1 game suspension is sufficient for an act that gives the team a pretty clear advantage for the whole game in the playoffs and can cause the opposing team its season.


Remember also this is the NFL where you only get 1 GAME in the playoffs unlike the NBA where you have the best of 7 series. So that 1 game is very important.

 

[Stifle Tower]

OK but isn't that an indication of guilt? It's like pleading the 5th doesn't mean you're guilty but it does make you look mighty guilty.

The point is he was not required to turn it over. They asked and he refused. IINM, he did meet with them on several occasions to answer questions. What if you had some private conversations that you didn't want to be made known, or certain adult web sites you had visited? Or some other reason like you've been phoning a therapist to make appointments to deal with personal problems?

Let's be realistic: ANYTHING would get leaked to the media as the whole intent of the investigation was to hang Brady. It's none of their damn business to be going through his phone on an unrestricted fishing expedition. If someone asked for my phone, the first thing I'd say is, "got a search warrant for that?"

Did it make Brady look guilty? Probably to many. But part of the rule of law in this country is to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. And that should apply to cell phones just as it does to our homes, cars, etc. We are innocent until proven guilty in this country. And the judge found enough reasonable doubt to rule him innocent. The NFL will likely appeal; Goodell has too much invested and his ego is way too big to accept defeat.

 

[ONE LOVE]

No, not at all. He was not required to turn it over by a court of law. They asked and he refused. What if you had some private conversations that you didn't want to be made known, or certain adult web sites you had visited. It's none of their damn business to be going through his phone on an unrestricted fishing expedition. If someone asked for my phone, the first thing I'd say is, "got a search warrant for that?"

Haven't they got enough evidence for a search warrant in this case?

 

[ONE LOVE]

And I will quote your post again.
You say that if you unlawfully (weird weird to use since inflating balls and flopping are obviously not against the law) do something to gain an advantage over your opponent that you should not be declared the winner.

Flopping is doing something against the rules to gain an advantage. Just like deflating a football. I would even say that flopping is more effective than deflating a football. Anyone can flop and get an advantage whether they are good players or not. Not anyone can deflate a football and get an advantage. If the Jacksonville qb deflated a football he would still suck..... He wouldn't suddenly become as good as Brady.

You never stated In your post that it matters if it's on or off the court, if there are cameras there to see it or not.

Fair is fair. Flopping is a way of gaining an unfair advantage. So is deflating a football.
Bring the hammer down of both types of offenses.
Fair is fair

1 act that affects 1 play in a best of 7 game series VS 1 act that affects the whole game in an elimination game.


There is a difference.

 

[fishonjazz]

I dunno who did what exactly as I'm not interested enough to be following it closely, but principally I refuse to believe a 1 game suspension is sufficient for an act that gives the team a pretty clear advantage for the whole game in the playoffs and can cause the opposing team its season.


Remember also this is the NFL where you only get 1 GAME in the playoffs unlike the NBA where you have the best of 7 series. So that 1 game is very important.

So you don't know much about the situation and have not done your research on it, yet you KNOW that deflating a football gives a team a clear advantage huh?
Lol



P.S. the game where Brady "cheated" was a blowout game that Brady didn't even play very well in.
The patriots running backs ran for like 250 yards and the patriots defense shut down the Colts offense.
The patriots win that game easily not what you do or don't do to the football.
The patriots could have been using a bowling ball and still won that game lol

 

[ONE LOVE]

So you don't know much about the situation and have not done your research on it, yet you KNOW that deflating a football gives a team a clear advantage huh?
Lol

Yeah a deflated ball is easier to catch so that gives you a clear advantage on offense.

 

[fishonjazz]

1 act that affects 1 play in a best of 7 game series VS 1 act that affects the whole game in an elimination game.


There is a difference.

Oh you think flops only happen once per game? That's a dumb thing to think.
How do you know that a deflated ball even has much of an effect on the outcome of a football game?
You were the one who originally said that it should matter how much the cheating effects the outcome. Cheating is cheating and should receive similar punishment. Fair is fair.

Have you changed your mind on that now?

I'm done talking to you about this since you just talk in circles and change your stance all the time and already admitted that you know very little about this, yet act like you are some kind is expert know it all who is unwilling to listen to anybody else's side of the discussion.

Nice troll job

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

OL is so dumb.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah a deflated ball is easier to catch so that gives you a clear advantage on offense.

Easier for the defenders to catch too though
Gives the defense a clear advantage for interceptions. (Receivers are really good at catching the ball already and need no advantage..... This helps the defenders more since they are not as good at catching the ball)

Btw dummy, the reason for deflating the ball is mainly for the qb to be able to grip it better.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Brady showed the NFL the relevant messages from his phone. Nearly everything the NFL released was information that wasn't 100% truthful.