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First Trade Idea of the Year

Ain’t the 2026 draft the first one we can actually offer our first round pick as the trade protections runs till 2024 ?
 
rjfan said:
Ain’t the 2026 draft the first one we can actually offer our first round pick as the trade protections runs till 2024 ?
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You can structure it so it conveys two years after the pick that goes to memphis... so it would likely be 2024... further out would have more value imo anyway... better chance we aren't good.
 
If you want a trade that will make the Jazz meaningfully different, if would have to be a trade that involves Bogey. A maybe upgrade over Niang's minutes is not doing anything.
 
If I was Houston I may not trade this guy just for a first. I think he could be a bigger Lu Dort. The more I watch the guy the more impressed I am. He is able to hold his own and move guys like Zion/Lebron while having the mobility to stay in front of guys like Jimmy and Dame.
 
KqWIN said:
If you want a trade that will make the Jazz meaningfully different, if would have to be a trade that involves Bogey. A maybe upgrade over Niang's minutes is not doing anything.
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Well the OP laid out that this is a 2-3 season move that may just lead to a Bogey move in the future. Next year I promise you we will be picking between Mike and Bojan... as long as Mike stays healthy.

Bogey plays 30 minutes a game now but if you have a different option that is more appealing there is nothing that says you can't move him down to 22-25 minutes a night in the playoffs and move the better option up from 12 minutes to 20 minutes. Margins get tight in the playoffs so everything counts.

I don't want us to be meaningfully different... we have the best record in the league. I want us to get better and make the roster/lineups more malleable, which is important in the playoffs. Tate isn't a maybe upgrade over Niang... he is a definite upgrade. He would likely be the second best defender on this team. He's at least on par with Royce imo.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Well the OP laid out that this is a 2-3 season move that may just lead to a Bogey move in the future. Next year I promise you we will be picking between Mike and Bojan... as long as Mike stays healthy.

Bogey plays 30 minutes a game now but if you have a different option that is more appealing there is nothing that says you can't move him down to 22-25 minutes a night in the playoffs and move the better option up from 12 minutes to 20 minutes. Margins get tight in the playoffs so everything counts.

I don't want us to be meaningfully different... we have the best record in the league. I want us to get better and make the roster/lineups more malleable, which is important in the playoffs. Tate isn't a maybe upgrade over Niang... he is a definite upgrade. He would likely be the second best defender on this team. He's at least on par with Royce imo.
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Tate is a definite upgrade over Niang on defense, but I'm not sold he is a better player especially in the context of this team. He's not a terrible offensive player, but I don't think his seudo big man offensive game is going to work on this team. He's been a reluctant/bad shooter his entire pro and college career. It's going to turn into a 4v5 on offense especially in a playoff series. Just can't see him taking any of Bogey's minutes. Even if Quin doesn't want to play Bogey, he's just going to play Ingles or Clarkson more instead.

Having said all of this, Tate for a first isn't a bad deal overall. He's on a great contract that would prove to be valuable down the line. I just don't see him making much of a difference this season. Tate is a difficult trade target though. Younger players similar to Tate almost never get moved. The team they're on is almost certainly going to value them the most.

It would have been a really slick move for the Jazz to trade pack the first they used on Udoka for a future 1st. Would have saved them from tax and could have been a trade chip to cash in on. But I guess Udoka was a can't miss prospect....
 
Shaquille Harrison was Handy'sHeros last can't miss. That didn't pan out quite as planned. DL gave you your chance and there were no trades necessary. I don't think he is giving up a 1st round pick for your next 'diamond in the rough'.

He looks intriguing, but I think we need someone taller and a first for him is a no go in my books.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Shaquille Harrison was Handy'sHeros last can't miss. That didn't pan out quite as planned. DL gave you your chance and there were no trades necessary. I don't think he is giving up a 1st round pick for your next 'diamond in the rough'.

He looks intriguing, but I think we need someone taller and a first for him is a no go in my books.
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We never used Shaq and he did have the hand injury that hampered him early. His traditional position is guard and we have great depth and health there. If he was used as a wing and got some of the Niang minutes he could have proved useful. I was more or less fine with his release. In part because I think Oni and Forrest can do some of the stuff I would want from Shaq.

So you can discount Shaq but I was on to Wood early... I feel pretty strongly that Tate is gonna be more along the lines of a Wood diamond. He reminds me of Royce, Tucker, Dort, but he also has some ability to drive. He plays with force too. I'm fine with folks not wanting to go a first for him... honestly if I was Houston it might not be enough.

He's plenty tall for how he plays. I'd be comfortable with him guarding 1-5 on switches. Guys won't be able to post him up. I think KD might be the only guy that he wouldn't bother... and KD is like the toughest one on one matchup in the league.
 
KqWIN said:
Tate is a difficult trade target though. Younger players similar to Tate almost never get moved. The team they're on is almost certainly going to value them the most.
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This is the question I have. Are these types of guys not moved for firsts because teams value them or because they don't get offers? Similar to Wood last year who apparently had lots of suitors at the trade deadline. Pistons didn't bite and then let him walk in the offseason. So they probably got offers for a second but no one went higher than that. He was expiring so its a bit different.

I could see a GM saying "we signed this guy off the scrap heap and can flip him for a first... lets do that **** now!"

I could also see a GM saying "we won't give you a first for a guy you signed off the scrap heap".

So I'm just not sure if teams make offers on these types that are strong enough to get accepted or if it is the team with the young player that is over-valuing them.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We never used Shaq and he did have the hand injury that hampered him early. His traditional position is guard and we have great depth and health there. If he was used as a wing and got some of the Niang minutes he could have proved useful. I was more or less fine with his release. In part because I think Oni and Forrest can do some of the stuff I would want from Shaq.

So you can discount Shaq but I was on to Wood early... I feel pretty strongly that Tate is gonna be more along the lines of a Wood diamond. He reminds me of Royce, Tucker, Dort, but he also has some ability to drive. He plays with force too. I'm fine with folks not wanting to go a first for him... honestly if I was Houston it might not be enough.

He's plenty tall for how he plays. I'd be comfortable with him guarding 1-5 on switches. Guys won't be able to post him up. I think KD might be the only guy that he wouldn't bother... and KD is like the toughest one on one matchup in the league.
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I hope DL has some All-In Moves.

Spending a 1st for a player that could give you a slightly better edge against big wings and bigs would be good move, in my opinion. I wouldn’t hesitate if I were confident of the player. This kind of asset can swing a game in a series.
 
FAILED STATE said:
I hope DL has some All-In Moves.

Spending a 1st for a player that could give you a slightly better edge against big wings and bigs would be good move, in my opinion. I wouldn’t hesitate if I were confident of the player. This kind of asset can swing a game in a series.
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****ing Lu Dort almost had OKC in the second round of the playoffs. Remember all the scheming we did to stop Harden? Just needed Dort.
 
FAILED STATE said:
I hope DL has some All-In Moves.

Spending a 1st for a player that could give you a slightly better edge against big wings and bigs would be good move, in my opinion. I wouldn’t hesitate if I were confident of the player. This kind of asset can swing a game in a series.
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You all know I'm all about the all-in moves. Once we knew Donovan was the real-deal in his first month or two, it was time to trade every first rounder we could find for something of value. DL kinda got the message on second round picks, but it wasn't necessarily value that we got in return in a lot of those deals.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is the question I have. Are these types of guys not moved for firsts because teams value them or because they don't get offers? Similar to Wood last year who apparently had lots of suitors at the trade deadline. Pistons didn't bite and then let him walk in the offseason. So they probably got offers for a second but no one went higher than that. He was expiring so its a bit different.

I could see a GM saying "we signed this guy off the scrap heap and can flip him for a first... lets do that **** now!"

I could also see a GM saying "we won't give you a first for a guy you signed off the scrap heap".

So I'm just not sure if teams make offers on these types that are strong enough to get accepted or if it is the team with the young player that is over-valuing them.
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The teams who found the guy are almost always going to value the player more. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Of course HOU is going to believe that Tate is a real player. They are the team that took a chance on him in the first place.

The only time I can remember this happening was with Jerami Grant. But that was a changing of the guard between Hinkie and Colangelo. Grant wasn't BC's guy so it was different. You could argue that Hinkie did this with MCW though.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
****ing Lu Dort almost had OKC in the second round of the playoffs. Remember all the scheming we did to stop Harden? Just needed Dort.
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Aaand any team serious about winning a championship has to think about guarding Harden... AND Kyrie, AND DURANT.

I’m not terrified of a shootout series, but I’d feel a lot better if the Jazz didn’t necessarily have to.
 
KqWIN said:
The teams who found the guy are almost always going to value the player more. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Of course HOU is going to believe that Tate is a real player. They are the team that took a chance on him in the first place.

The only time I can remember this happening was with Jerami Grant. But that was a changing of the guard between Hinkie and Colangelo. Grant wasn't BC's guy so it was different. You could argue that Hinkie did this with MCW though.
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Jrue Holiday is another example.

I think I agree I just don't know how many examples there are of guys like Tate... undrafted rookie that looks really productive from the get go. There is no doubt he's a real player... is he something a little more and are the Rockets going to benefit from him being productive and cheap in the next two years?

It would be like if someone offered a first for Royce a couple years ago... would we have taken that if we weren't planning on being good? Maybe.

It would take someone that is hyper focused and value driven to cash in on something like that... Hinkie would likely be the type to consider it. I'm just curious if teams regularly make offers like this. I think the history of the player matters as well as the age. If he was 21 and was drafted in the first round itd be dumb to take the offer... undrafted guy turning into a first might be seen as found money.
 
KqWIN said:
The teams who found the guy are almost always going to value the player more. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Of course HOU is going to believe that Tate is a real player. They are the team that took a chance on him in the first place.

The only time I can remember this happening was with Jerami Grant. But that was a changing of the guard between Hinkie and Colangelo. Grant wasn't BC's guy so it was different. You could argue that Hinkie did this with MCW though.
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Bruce Brown going for a second and Musa is kind of comparable maybe. Brown only had one year left on his deal but was more established. At one point I think I suggested our first this year (the Dok pick) for him might make some sense.
 
KqWIN said:
The teams who found the guy are almost always going to value the player more. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Of course HOU is going to believe that Tate is a real player. They are the team that took a chance on him in the first place.

The only time I can remember this happening was with Jerami Grant. But that was a changing of the guard between Hinkie and Colangelo. Grant wasn't BC's guy so it was different. You could argue that Hinkie did this with MCW though.
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As I've watched some of the video on him the more I think you are right... I doubt they would move him for a 1st. He is a special kind of versatile defender. Able to guard guys like Brandon Ingram and Jerami Grant and cause them problems... then able to switch on guys like Zion and Adams and move them. Also able to stay in front of Lillard/Rose and wall them off while also bothering their shot.

I think he's a special defender and the offense is plenty good. They nabbed a couple building blocks in Wood and Tate.
 
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