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Following 2016 potential draftees

Not my debate, but I think Baldwin is probably a 3rd or 4th guard. I say that because I don't think he's that distinguished as a PG, and I don't think he's big enough to consistently guard NBA 2s. His 3-pt shooting will get him minutes and he should be a decent defensive player, but I don't think he's a starter ideally. Maybe he'll prove that wrong. I see him as a middle-class Deron Williams.

I think Murray is a bonafide starting 2-guard and an 18 - 20-pt scorer (or better) who will shoot 38%+ from 3-pt range even as a young player. He'll need to run off screens and play a bit of pick-and-roll--he won't blow buy defenders who are up on him--but he'll be fantastic when he gets a bit of space. I think he's a borderline All Star with a clear path to becoming an All Star. I think he's like a bigger version of CJ McCollum who is even better in the open floor.

1) Name one 2-guard in the NBA then he can guard. Colleges attacked Murray because he was an awful defender...what do you think is gonna happen against good players?

2) McCollum is as good as he is because he's super quick. Murray isn't quick. I don't see him creating as well in the NBA. I think his ceiling is a better ball handling JJ Redick, which is a pretty decent player.
 
1) Name one 2-guard in the NBA then he can guard. Colleges attacked Murray because he was an awful defender...what do you think is gonna happen against good players?

2) McCollum is as good as he is because he's super quick. Murray isn't quick. I don't see him creating as well in the NBA. I think his ceiling is a better ball handling JJ Redick, which is a pretty decent player.

I wouldn't call Mcollum super quick. Murray can be as quick as McCollum.
 
I was not that high on Knight.
Was not that high on MKG (other than locker room guy).
Was kinda luke on Booker.
Was somewhat high on TJones.
I HATED Goodwin.
Have totally been the Skal naysayer.

Was high on Kanter (meh)
Was super high on Wall, Cousins, and Davis.

Point is, like you, I don't pimp players just because they're UK (you Duke).
I really, truly, think Murray has it upstairs to be special. It's not his physical attributes or even any elite skill, per se, but he 100% believes he is going to rip out throats. I like that.
I agree with all of this except I remember you being pretty high on mkg
 
Yeah, just do a Jazzfanz poll. Could even have it be a poll in a private forum.

Fwiw, my money is on Jamal being the better player.

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This.
 
I think he's like a bigger version of CJ McCollum who is even better in the open floor.

Good call. I wanted the jazz to draft mccollum that year
 
I think you are mistaking CJ's ability to handle for quickness over Murray. Athletically I don't see much separation.

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With all do respect mkg will always be one of my favorite players. Pkm was high on him but as a person and work ethic.

I think perrin was refering to deyonta davis. I think he surprised by his ability on offense. I wished it was maker.

It is so hard to know if anything being said is true. So many smoke screens and fake injury reports to get people to drop.

To get teams ahead to take closer looks at players. If teams have drafted well in the past i think other teams will look and listen to what they do.

I also milwaukee will look at the jazz some because of zanick. I think the draft poeltl.
 
In all fairness, I can see the buzz with Dejounte Murray. There's a lot to like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCfjP6w2HQ


Did you see my notes of the game I watched of him? He's very intriguing and has all the tools and shiftiness in the world. The problem is - he has no idea how to play basketball. NO IDEA!! I found a new appreciation for Murray's skill and quickness and moves but I also found a player who would be a pain in the *** to watch once the novelty wears off.
 
With all do respect mkg will always be one of my favorite players. Pkm was high on him but as a person and work ethic.

I think perrin was refering to deyonta davis. I think he surprised by his ability on offense. I wished it was maker.

It is so hard to know if anything being said is true. So many smoke screens and fake injury reports to get people to drop.

To get teams ahead to take closer looks at players. If teams have drafted well in the past i think other teams will look and listen to what they do.

I also milwaukee will look at the jazz some because of zanick. I think the draft poeltl.


The Jazz might have been surprised by Dejounte Murray's rebounding and speed with the ball. I think Perrin mentioned that in the workout interview. Murray is a surprisingly good rebounder for a slim guard.
 
Did you see my notes of the game I watched of him? He's very intriguing and has all the tools and shiftiness in the world. The problem is - he has no idea how to play basketball. NO IDEA!!

I saw your notes. I'm not sure you can write off Murray's IQ based on what Washington was doing. Yeah, he's raw, but as long as he's coachable and can play within a system, he should be okay.
 
Did you see my notes of the game I watched of him? He's very intriguing and has all the tools and shiftiness in the world. The problem is - he has no idea how to play basketball. NO IDEA!! I found a new appreciation for Murray's skill and quickness and moves but I also found a player who would be a pain in the *** to watch once the novelty wears off.
Sounds kinda like mudiay
 
Sounds kinda like mudiay

Umh, NO! Not really. Not at all! Mudiay is infinitely more in control and knows how to run a team relatively well(he just can't shoot and hasn't adjusted to the league yet). Dejounte has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's out of control on 50% of possessions. The good thing is - he can get anywhere on the floor he wants. The bad thing is - he doesn't know what to do when he gets there. If he's coachable and picks up stuff well I can see him being a very good player... like... a taller Jeff Teague.
 
Umh, NO! Not really. Not at all! Mudiay is infinitely more in control and knows how to run a team relatively well(he just can't shoot and hasn't adjusted to the league yet). Dejounte has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's out of control on 50% of possessions. The good thing is - he can get anywhere on the floor he wants. The bad thing is - he doesn't know what to do when he gets there. If he's coachable and picks up stuff well I can see him being a very good player... like... a taller Jeff Teague.
Didn't mudiay like set records for turnovers or something?

l remember box score watching many times this year and coming across mudiay and his 5, 6, 7, 8... turnovers every seemingly every game he got big minutes.
His shot selection was horrible too iirc.

I remember him looking like a mess everytime the jazz played the nuggets.

He obviously has talent but plays dumb as hell. That how I pictured murray when you described that game. Getting to were he wants with ease (natural talent) and then ****ing up when he gets there.
 
Didn't mudiay like set records for turnovers or something?

l remember box score watching many times this year and coming across mudiay and his 5, 6, 7, 8... turnovers every seemingly every game he got big minutes.
His shot selection was horrible too iirc.

I remember him looking like a mess everytime the jazz played the nuggets.

He obviously has talent but plays dumb as hell. That how I pictured murray when you described that game. Getting to were he wants with ease (natural talent) and then ****ing up when he gets there.

TO's are suppose to be a good sign for young PG's though. It means they are trying to do things and learning from mistakes. Burke hardly ever turned the ball over and it didnt make him a good pG.
 
Didn't mudiay like set records for turnovers or something?

l remember box score watching many times this year and coming across mudiay and his 5, 6, 7, 8... turnovers every seemingly every game he got big minutes.
His shot selection was horrible too iirc.

I remember him looking like a mess everytime the jazz played the nuggets.

He obviously has talent but plays dumb as hell. That how I pictured murray when you described that game. Getting to were he wants with ease (natural talent) and then ****ing up when he gets there.

Rookie PGs usually have high TO rates, it's more about them getting used to the speed and length of the league and finding their limits. He had 18% TO(Neto had 19%) rate which is not great, but is alright for a rookie PG who runs the offense for his team - he also had a pretty high AST% - 29%. Mudiay is much more ready and knows how to run the team - he runs the pnr much better, passes out of the pnr and makes good reads, he makes mistakes trying to make plays for teammates and his shot is not great, but overall he's much more advanced than Murray. With Murray it's more about playing our of control - he gets in the paint on a whim and doesn't know what to do there and just throws his body into the opponent and jacks up contested shots that don't fall. He doesn't really look to pass out of the PnR, his first thought is - score, second - score, third - score. Which is a shame, because he seems to be a good passer. If they manage to tech him to once in a while look for the pass at the rim it will be great. Here's a fun way to explain it - remember how Dante was alergic to going into the paint and to the rim and was always looking to pass? Now imagine the complete opposite(never/rarely looking to pass and always trying to finish at the rim without taking into account how badly contested his shot would be) and that's Murray.
 
Rookie PGs usually have high TO rates, it's more about them getting used to the speed and length of the league and finding their limits. He had 18% TO(Neto had 19%) rate which is not great, but is alright for a rookie PG who runs the offense for his team - he also had a pretty high AST% - 29%. Mudiay is much more ready and knows how to run the team - he runs the pnr much better, passes out of the pnr and makes good reads, he makes mistakes trying to make plays for teammates and his shot is not great, but overall he's much more advanced than Murray. With Murray it's more about playing our of control - he gets in the paint on a whim and doesn't know what to do there and just throws his body into the opponent and jacks up contested shots that don't fall. He doesn't really look to pass out of the PnR, his first thought is - score, second - score, third - score. Which is a shame, because he seems to be a good passer. If they manage to tech him to once in a while look for the pass at the rim it will be great. Here's a fun way to explain it - remember how Dante was alergic to going into the paint and to the rim and was always looking to pass? Now imagine the complete opposite(never/rarely looking to pass and always trying to finish at the rim without taking into account how badly contested his shot would be) and that's Murray.
Seems to me that they are both low bbiq, players but murrays is just lower.
 
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