Following potential 2015 draftees

[The Midnight]

Ok irregardless of what Locke said...


What do you guys think about the Cody Zeller / Frank Kaminsky comparison?


- Zeller by accounts was hitting 3's after 3's after 3's in workouts impressing CHA

- Zeller was younger

- Zeller was quicker and more athletic

- Similar size/length/etc

- Zeller has had limited success in the NBA thus far


Would Kaminsky be better or worse than Zeller when he enters the NBA?

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Ok irregardless of what Locke said...


What do you guys think about the Cody Zeller / Frank Kaminsky comparison?


- Zeller by accounts was hitting 3's after 3's after 3's in workouts impressing CHA

- Zeller was younger

- Zeller was quicker and more athletic

- Similar size/length/etc

- Zeller has had limited success in the NBA thus far


Would Kaminsky be better or worse than Zeller when he enters the NBA?

It's a poor one. Kaminsky basically does everything better than Zeller. And Frank was the best player on a final four team. Cody Zeller isn't even the best player in his family.

 

[stitches]

This is a bit old, but have been thinking about it a bit and finally ran the numbers:

A bit was made of Pat Connaughnton's high vertical leap score at the Combine, with some people (me included) having suspicions that he may have held back on the standing reach to make his vertical leap look better (since the latter is calculated based on the former).

Not saying one way or the other whether that was the case, but I was interested to see if others might be put under similar suspicion. So I calculated the ratio of standing reach to wingspan to see if Connaughton's was unusual. (The smaller the number, the greater the suspicion -- though certainly body type plays a huge role -- in any case a low ratio dilutes the value of a large wingspan a bit if both are "true" measures, though this matters more for bigs than smalls).

Connaughton was certainly toward the top of the list with a low reach/wingspan ratio. But he wasn't alone. Here's the top 15 on the list:
1.19 Kelly Oubre
1.20 Brandon Ashley
1.20 Pat Connaughton
1.21 Justin Anderson
1.21 Rondae Hollis Jefferson
1.21 Jordan Mickey
1.22 Chasson Randle
1.22 Stanley Johnson
1.22 Marcus Thorton
1.23 JP Tokoto
1.23 Joseph Young
1.23 Terry Rozier
1.23 Cameron Payne
1.23 Dez Wells
1.23 Andrew Harrison

btw, at the other end of the list is Frank Kaminsky (1.32).

It might have something to do with their frame. Narrow frame would mean lower wingspan, even if they have long arms(which would measure as short wingspan and long reach).

 

[idiot]

Because I can't help myself:

I added together wingspan/height and standing reach/height ratios/rankings to come up with an idea of who really has the long arms that may allow them to play above their listed height. (As Jazz4ever notes, this does not address the issue of absolute length -- just who may play taller or shorter than their height based on reach measurements. A player may have adequate total length even with short arms if they're relatively tall for their position.)

On the long arms side of things are players such as: Christmas, Qualls, Alexander, Looney, and de Paula, McCullough, Rozier, Upshaw, Harrell, and RJH.

On the short arms side are: Kaminsky (the shortest in comparison to height by quite a bit, actually), Harvey, Aa. Harrison, Connaughton, Wright, and Dekker.

Out of 63 measured at the combine, on this measurement prospects of particular interest to us ranked:
4 Looney
8 McCullough
14 RJH
16 Wood
17 Payne
18 Turner
23 Russell (Do I have to give up the dream now?)
30 Oubre
36 Johnson
38 J. Anderson
40 Portis
41 Lyles
43 Grant
45 Booker
52 Dekker
63 Kaminsky

From the very top end of the scale to the very bottom (ie Looney vs. Kaminsky) this means about a 7.5" difference for 7-footers in effective arm length or a 6.5" inch difference for 6-footers. The difference between the #20 and #40 ranks are about 1.75" and 1.5" respectively.

 

[The Midnight]

It's a poor one. Kaminsky basically does everything better than Zeller. And Frank was the best player on a final four team. Cody Zeller isn't even the best player in his family.

Yeah but Kaminsky is also a full 2 years older entering the draft?


If we're gonna have a fair comparison, then we'd have to compare Cody entering the draft VS Kaminsky 2 years ago. Can you still say that Cody "does everything better"?

 

[idiot]

Ok irregardless of what Locke said...


What do you guys think about the Cody Zeller / Frank Kaminsky comparison?


- Zeller by accounts was hitting 3's after 3's after 3's in workouts impressing CHA

- Zeller was younger

- Zeller was quicker and more athletic

- Similar size/length/etc

- Zeller has had limited success in the NBA thus far


Would Kaminsky be better or worse than Zeller when he enters the NBA?

I'd expect Kaminsky to be better off the bat. He's clearly more skilled upon leaving college. But you'd also have to believe (simply on age) that Zeller has more room to grow as a player from what they were/are at draft night. That's not to say that Kaminsky couldn't develop more than Zeller does, just that the odds aren't in his favor.

But Zeller has been developing nicely if you look at the stats closer. He may end up as a good player yet (even though he still hasn't made a 3-pointer in either college or pros), though worse than probably expected for a #4 pick. He and Kaminsky are only 6 months apart. I have to imagine that Zeller got by far the better of him when they were both freshmen and sophomores in the Big 10. And Zeller will probably have the advantage in head-to-head NBA matchups in Kaminsky's rookie season. After that, it's where their work ethic and potential takes them.

 

[Jazzyy]

What do you guys think of timothe luwawu as one of our seconded round picks?? He's got potential and is French so he can be friends with Rudy lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So Locke doesn't like Frank and it's fairly clear. He made a comment about him during the tournament that was kind of snarky as well. Yet at the end of the podcast he say we might consider trading for old man Channing frye and his 8 Mill per year contract. Says we could trade a second round pick for it. Frye had some rather serious health problems and is right around the area of his career where he's going to take a sharp down turn. It seems really weird that Locke would doubt Frank but want Frye... After all Frye was a 4 year guy... Who wasn't as dominant as Frank was this last year.

I think we are all reading into lockes comments too much. DL also mentioned maybe we don't want any more development projects right now... Frank would be a lot closer to being a contributor than the other players we are considering.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Sometimes it is nice to be reminded what a moronic blowhard Locke is.

So Locke doesn't like Frank and it's fairly clear. He made a comment about him during the tournament that was kind of snarky as well. Yet at the end of the podcast he say we might consider trading for old man Channing frye and his 8 Mill per year contract. Says we could trade a second round pick for it. Frye had some rather serious health problems and is right around the area of his career where he's going to take a sharp down turn. It seems really weird that Locke would doubt Frank but want Frye... After all Frye was a 4 year guy... Who wasn't as dominant as Frank was this last year.

I think we are all reading into lockes comments too much. DL also mentioned maybe we don't want any more development projects right now... Frank would be a lot closer to being a contributor than the other players we are considering.

I don't want to get into this too much because some people get bent out of whack over it, but every once in a while Locke will say something where he exposes himself as being kind of clueless. Honestly, he's pretty good at reading stats and picking out interesting trends/patterns, but IMO his understanding of the game and even the Jazz in particular is pretty limited.
.
Now, let the tomatoes fly, Locke lovers. <ducks>

 

[Hotdog]

I don't really care for Locke's opinion either. All the ridiculously useless analytics, heavy breathing, bad takes, long pauses, random changes of thought.....It's so hard to listen to.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

And before the Lockites show up, I'd just like to say that I can appreciate any fan that is as passionate about the Jazz as Locke is. Just the same, it doesn't change my opinion that there are quite a few posters on JF that have a better understanding of the game.

 

[Carbon13]

So Locke doesn't like Frank and it's fairly clear. He made a comment about him during the tournament that was kind of snarky as well. Yet at the end of the podcast he say we might consider trading for old man Channing frye and his 8 Mill per year contract. Says we could trade a second round pick for it. Frye had some rather serious health problems and is right around the area of his career where he's going to take a sharp down turn. It seems really weird that Locke would doubt Frank but want Frye... After all Frye was a 4 year guy... Who wasn't as dominant as Frank was this last year.

I think we are all reading into lockes comments too much. DL also mentioned maybe we don't want any more development projects right now... Frank would be a lot closer to being a contributor than the other players we are considering.

I think the choice of a 2nd rounder for Frye vs a 12 pick for Kaminsky is pretty clear. I also think Locke has more access and knows more than anyone on this board save pkm and cy. The only complaint i have on him is he is on the jazz payroll, so you can get some not unbiased analysis at times. I think this is on purpose though because he cares about the franchise so much. Im just trying to say hes self aware, well connected and smart.