Gun Control

[DutchJazzer]

stigmatizing firarms whatever firearms. is exactly what this commie administration is doing.
whit the stigmatization of firearms.
you know what happens the goverment gets a monopoly on fire-arms, justifiable "violence", and self defense.
that is neevr good.

maybe i just dont trust governments from personal experience. and history ffrom people i know personally.

you go ahead and trust government

 

[Stoked]

I've hung around people who were carrying baseball bats, and it never bothered me. Yet, some people (not you, of course) think it was inherently threatening in Philadelphia outside a voting booth.

Maybe it had to do with the comments and actions they were reported to have said and taken.

Jesus, One brow come on.

 

[babe]

People everywhere across time have historically failed to respect most of the natural or "god-given" rights I think humans should have. The United States in general has been an exception in trying to theoretically project a few of those rights into "polite society" with a few "Amendments" to the US Constitution, and a fair amount of idealistic prattle.

The chief obstacle to real human rights has always been human nature itself, including an us/them thought process that often degrades others or denies the rights of others.

The "right to keep and bear arms" is something that is only relevant because there are guns and "arms" of some kind which people through the power of government are willing to use for the purpose of degrading the rights of others. As long as there are government officials, or people who are willing to empower government to do this, those who are so degraded should resist with equal force.

I think the "age of the gun" is probably over because guns are ineffective against tanks, armed drones with cameras and computer-controls operated by "enforcement officers", jets, helicopter gun ships, swat teams with all kinds of gizmos, submarines, and nuclear bombs. . . . well, and a lot of other stuff that can kill people. Probably the only real defense that people can have to protect themselves from organized human ignorance, let alone homicidal zombies, is ideas.

What is most concerning to me is the degradation of the ideas in the general discussion of what people are and how society should respect individuals. The whole idea that individuals should be tolerated in any respect that goes against the "norms" of the masses of society has suffered in recent decades. The "War against Terrorism" has essentially become a war against variety in mankind.

 

[fishonjazz]

If that would have happened, then we would have been reading an entirely different story.

I guess it's a good thing you have to go through training before you can get a permit to carry a gun, right? So things like your hypothetical don't usually happen.

Unless you're a cop. They have been known to shoot even unarmed people because they felt threatened. But hey, let's just give them all the guns.

Im just saying that the timing is all wrong right now to be doing that..... because of what happened recently people are on edge all across america, and seeing someone walk into a mall with a rifle can be seen as a threat right now.
Like i said there might be someone out there with a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon that sees this guy with a rifle walk into the mall and thinks "here is my chance to be a hero"

 

[Stoked]

Ya i would prefer to have 911 calls be used for the right reasons.... also i dont like that the cops time was wasted needing to go find these guys to check for permits.

Like i said before... just because you have the right to do something, does not me that its always a good idea to do it.

What if that guy walked into the mall with that rifle and another guy carrying a handgun saw the guy with the rifle and thought that the guy witht the rifle was at the mall to kill people? Then the guy with the handgun pulls his gun and draws on the rifle guy, and the rifle guy sees another man with a gun aimed at him, so he gets scared and they both start firing.
Thank god nothing like that happened, but when you bring something into a public place that is scary to alot of the public, then you are increasing the chances for something bad to happen.

First, you are right. Just because you can does not mean you should. But you said it yourself. They can.

Second, you said it yourself. "thank God nothing like that happened...". With over 100 million gun owners you think if this was a legitimate worry it would have happened by now with almost 1 of 3 Americans being gun owners. If we are going to create laws on what might happen well then we need to get to work. Someone might decide to go work in a soup kitchen for the homeless and poison them so I want background checks on soup kitchen volunteers.

 

[Stoked]

I thought the whole point of being able to have guns is so you can protect yourself from someone going on one of these killing sprees like what happened in the movie theatre, at the sandy hook school, and even at the mall here in salt lake city.

A man standing there with a hand gun holsetered is not on a shooting rampage any more than a guy in his car driving down the road is on a bend to run over people.

 

[fishonjazz]

First, you are right. Just because you can does not mean you should. But you said it yourself. They can.

Second, you said it yourself. "thank God nothing like that happened...". With over 100 million gun owners you think if this was a legitimate worry it would have happened by now with almost 1 of 3 Americans being gun owners. If we are going to create laws on what might happen well then we need to get to work. Someone might decide to go work in a soup kitchen for the homeless and poison them so I want background checks on soup kitchen volunteers.

I agree and i dont think the guy did something wrong or should be arrested or anything
I just think he could have used some common sense and realized that people are a little sensitive to that type of thing right now.

I have noticed on facebook that even most people who are against gun control think that what this guy did was kind of a dumb thing to do.
You yourself even said it was a bit extreme.... thats all im really saying, is that it wasn't the best idea.

 

[fishonjazz]

A man standing there with a hand gun holsetered is not on a shooting rampage any more than a guy in his car driving down the road is on a bend to run over people.

I didnt see his rifle being in a holster..... must have missed that

 

[Stoked]

I agree and i dont think the guy did something wrong or should be arrested or anything
I just think he could have used some common sense and realized that people are a little sensitive to that type of thing right now.

I have noticed on facebook that even most people who are against gun control think that what this guy did was kind of a dumb thing to do.
You yourself even said it was a bit extreme.... thats all im really saying, is that it wasn't the best idea.

On this we agree.

 

[fishonjazz]

A man standing there with a hand gun holsetered is not on a shooting rampage any more than a guy in his car driving down the road is on a bend to run over people.

Also, i noticed in the picture that i saw that he had his rifle on a shoulder strap hanging behind his back... My brother in law who was in the marines made a comment on facebook saying that having your rifle dangling behind your back is very irresponsible because he was trained that you should always have control of your weapon, and the way this guy was carrying it someone could have came up to him and easily disarmed him and took control of his weapon.

 

[Stoked]

I didnt see his rifle being in a holster..... must have missed that

I did not specifically reference that man in my post. Since you want it to be about that specific man then ok fine. In the pictures provided the rifle is slung across his back and not in his hands. That is how you carry a rifle when you are not ready/preparing to use it. Granted his looks a little loose and is not really pointing up or down. Better if he had it over a shoulder.

Now let us say I am out shopping and I see two different men in two different stores.

First guy has his rifle across his back and is just minding his own business, exactly like the guy we are specifically talking about, well then I have no problema dn go about my business.

The Second guy is walking around with his rifle in his hands. Well I am going to observe this guy and at the first aggressive action or comment I am calling the police.

Why? Well it is all about their body language and how they are holding their weapon. The second guy is CLEARLY displaying a more aggressive stance by wlaking around holding his assault rifle in his hands.

Basically that is the same a holstered handgun versus a handgun in a mans hand.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I didnt see his rifle being in a holster..... must have missed that

loosely speaking a "holster"

 

[DutchJazzer]

Also, i noticed in the picture that i saw that he had his rifle on a shoulder strap hanging behind his back... My brother in law who was in the marines made a comment on facebook saying that having your rifle dangling behind your back is very irresponsible because he was trained that you should always have control of your weapon, and the way this guy was carrying it someone could have came up to him and easily disarmed him and took control of his weapon.

even when he was in control of his weapon it is very easy to disarm them

 

[DutchJazzer]

Im just saying that the timing is all wrong right now to be doing that..... because of what happened recently people are on edge all across america, and seeing someone walk into a mall with a rifle can be seen as a threat right now.
Like i said there might be someone out there with a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon that sees this guy with a rifle walk into the mall and thinks "here is my chance to be a hero"

this is also a bad side effect of stigmatizing guns. so because some nut stole some guns and shoots some guys.
everyone with a gun is a bad man?


so your hypothetical situation only works iuf you assume everyone with a gun is bad.
cus guns are bad.

luckily people who carry guns are comfortable with guns and wont draw and shoot.

so your hypothetical situation is just crap pulled out of your *******

 

[fishonjazz]

I did not specifically reference that man in my post. Since you want it to be about that specific man then ok fine. In the pictures provided the rifle is slung across his back and not in his hands. That is how you carry a rifle when you are not ready/preparing to use it. Granted his looks a little loose and is not really pointing up or down. Better if he had it over a shoulder.

Now let us say I am out shopping and I see two different men in two different stores.

First guy has his rifle across his back and is just minding his own business, exactly like the guy we are specifically talking about, well then I have no problema dn go about my business.

The Second guy is walking around with his rifle in his hands. Well I am going to observe this guy and at the first aggressive action or comment I am calling the police.

Why? Well it is all about their body language and how they are holding their weapon. The second guy is CLEARLY displaying a more aggressive stance by wlaking around holding his assault rifle in his hands.

Basically that is the same a holstered handgun versus a handgun in a mans hand.

Like i said in my other post..... my military trained brother in law said that the way the man is carrying his rifle is unsafe and not the correct way to carry a gun.
So you say that if you see the guy carrying the gun on his back then it doesn't concern you, but a man carrying the gun in his hands does concern you.
Well my brother in law might get concerned by the man carrying the gun on his back, and think that the man carrying the gun in his hands is much safer.
See some people would see this man as a threat, and some people would not see him as a threat.... which is why i think the best thing to do would be to just not carry rifles into malls.
If you are worried about your safety when you go to buy shoes at jc penneys then i think you should just carry a 9 milli, a .45, a .357 ect.

 

[Stoked]

Like i said in my other post..... my military trained brother in law said that the way the man is carrying his rifle is unsafe and not the correct way to carry a gun.
So you say that if you see the guy carrying the gun on his back then it doesn't concern you, but a man carrying the gun in his hands does concern you.
Well my brother in law might get concerned by the man carrying the gun on his back, and think that the man carrying the gun in his hands is much safer.
See some people would see this man as a threat, and some people would not see him as a threat.... which is why i think the best thing to do would be to just not carry rifles into malls.
If you are worried about your safety when you go to buy shoes at jc penneys then i think you should just carry a 9 milli, a .45, a .357 ect.

OK. But the man is still not making any threatening moves so there is still no concern. At most your brother at most would watch him and maybe tell him the proper way to sling his rifle.

However the fact remains that the guy has the right and was not acting in a threatening manner in any way. You want to spin all these hypotheticals and I see no point.

 

[Scat]

Like i said in my other post..... my military trained brother in law said that the way the man is carrying his rifle is unsafe and not the correct way to carry a gun.
So you say that if you see the guy carrying the gun on his back then it doesn't concern you, but a man carrying the gun in his hands does concern you.
Well my brother in law might get concerned by the man carrying the gun on his back, and think that the man carrying the gun in his hands is much safer.
See some people would see this man as a threat, and some people would not see him as a threat.... which is why i think the best thing to do would be to just not carry rifles into malls.
If you are worried about your safety when you go to buy shoes at jc penneys then i think you should just carry a 9 milli, a .45, a .357 ect.

You do realize that the AR15 was not loaded?

 

[fishonjazz]

OK. But the man is still not making any threatening moves so there is still no concern. At most your brother at most would watch him and maybe tell him the proper way to sling his rifle.

However the fact remains that the guy has the right and was not acting in a threatening manner in any way. You want to spin all these hypotheticals and I see no point.

Well maybe the next guy who wants to go on a shooting spree at all mall should carry his rifle with a shoulder strap hanging around his back so everyone will feel comfortable with him as he walks around trying to see who has a gun on thier hip..... Then once he has determined who he thinks might have a gun he can take them out first and then get to the unarmed after..... Since everyone should just feel fine with a guy walking around at the mall with a rifle on his back.

I wonder how you would feel stoked, if you were at the movies with your family and a guy walked in with an assault rifle on strapped to his back. Would you have a tinge of worry about the safety of your family? Or just ignore him?

 

[fishonjazz]

You do realize that the AR15 was not loaded?

No i did not....i do think that was a good thing.

However someone else with a concealed weapon that is at the mall with thier family might not know if the gun was loaded or not and might feel like that man could be a threat.

At the worst, bullets get fired.
At the least, people take pictures of the guy and it causes a big fuss on facebook and causes us to get into these types of discussions/arguements.

I would rather that the guy just goes to the store and purchases his merchandise and goes home without me ever even hearing of the dude.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I wonder how you would feel stoked, if you were at the movies with your family and a guy walked in with an assault rifle on strapped to his back. Would you have a tinge of worry about the safety of your family? Or just ignore him?

i would not worry at all.

unless it is in a "gunfree" country or the so called gun free zones