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Hayward awarded for his defense

LazyD said:
Not saying he's a great defender or anything, but being arguably the best on the team means those other guys should be on their first, unless being a little more notable of a player is a prerequisite, which it seems like it may be.

They area on defense where I really like Hayward is his individual defense on point guards and shooting guards that are not stronger than him. But everything else, he kinda sucks at. I agree the Jazz need more versatile defenders on the perimeter because Hayward's ability to guard point guards is useless, especially with Burke on the court, so he can only guard one position, and not well if his matchup is a Wade or Stephenson type. I think there are a few 3's he can guard effectively, but only ones that are not stronger or longer than he.

That being said, I still don't think he belongs on such a list
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Of course it is, no one wants to read an article filled with guys like JL the turd.
 
GVC said:
His competition is Burks, RJ and Trey...

Gordo was not a good perimeter defender this season. Not strong, not particularly quick, slow/lazy closing out on shooters. Jazz REALLY need some size/strength/athleticism/nasty on the perimeter.
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Agreed. Watching the defensive intensity and effort in the Finals has made me realize how low the bar was set by our wing players. The entire team if very lazy about closing out on shooters.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Ive concluded this writer must watch too many Warriors games and is spoiled from watching shooters.

Arron Afflalo is a bottom 5 rotation player in the NBA.... are you ****ing kidding me?

hows that credible whatsoever?
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Guessing he's going off net +/-. Harkless and Afflalo both had around -5 net. Orlando was outscored by 5 more points per 100 possessions when either Harkless or Afflalo was on the floor than when they were on the bench.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Guessing he's going off net +/-. Harkless and Afflalo both had around -5 net. Orlando was outscored by 5 more points per 100 possessions when either Harkless or Afflalo was on the floor than when they were on the bench.
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Afflalo was worse than Ben McLemore? whos offensive win shares were a negative number, and scored 8.8 points on 8.3 shots 37% from the field 32% from 3, Ast/TO ratio below 1 in the same type of minutes as Harkless and Aminu.

18.2 ppg, 3.6 rebs, 3.4 assists, .5 stl, 1.7 to's on 46% from the field, and 43% from 3 on 4.1 attempts are the stats of a bottom five rotation player in the NBA?
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Afflalo was worse than Ben McLemore? whos offensive win shares were a negative number, and scored 8.8 points on 8.3 shots 37% from the field 32% from 3, Ast/TO ratio below 1 in the same type of minutes as Harkless and Aminu.

18.2 ppg, 3.6 rebs, 3.4 assists, .5 stl, 1.7 to's on 46% from the field, and 43% from 3 on 4.1 attempts are the stats of a bottom five rotation player in the NBA?
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They influenced their teams similarly. Afflalo in more minutes and shots, though. Besides, you're giving me nothing but offensive statistics. Afflalo was generally speaking even on his effect on his team's offense. His defense was so bad, however, that his total negative impact pretty much matches McLemore's.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
They influenced their teams similarly.
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Really?

in the past 2 seasons when Afflalo isn't playing the Magic are 4-23.

This season his PER was 16.1 McLemores was 7.8, worse but similar to John Salmons, 34 y/o Tayshaun Prince and the incomparable Earl Clark

Afflalo's 'Real Plus-Minus' is -3.22, Mclemores was -5.49

What exactly does Ben McLemore do better than Arron Afflalo?
 
An argument built around +/- as an indicator of a players influence on a team is a weak argument, for sure.

Real Plus-Minus

Patty Mills +3.73
Tony Parker +2.87

Amir Johnson +4.61
Serge Ibaka +4.47

Channing Frye +5.08
Chris Bosh +3.78
Marc Gasol +3.57

If you're wondering Hayward led the Jazz with +0.58, then Marvin at -0.07, Burks -0.25, Favors -0.95, Trey -1.23
 
Just read an article that said Hayward handled the ball more times than Durant and PG. Pretty interesting stuff too.
 
I don't get this article either or how some here are bagging on Hayward' s defense. His defense is what I like most about his game.
 
GVC said:
His competition is Burks, RJ and Trey...

Gordo was not a good perimeter defender this season. Not strong, not particularly quick, slow/lazy closing out on shooters. Jazz REALLY need some size/strength/athleticism/nasty on the perimeter.
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Well, you just named 2 players that should have gone on the list ahead of him then.
 
GVC said:
The Jazz may have had the worst collection of perimeter defenders in the league: Trey, Diante (who may have actually been the best of the bunch by default), Alec, Gordo, RJ. The standard for "best" here is pretty low.

Gordo was definitely better than Trey, Alec and RJ defensively. IMO his transition D is pretty good.
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I believe Haytimes transition D is at an elite level in the league...but his halfcourt/perimeter D is mediocre at best, which is strange...he has the physical tools to be an all around great defender.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Play defense.
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GVC said:
Really? Seems to me his footspeed, strength and vertical are all below average for NBA wings.
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He doesn't possess John Wall type speed, but he has deceptive speed (sorta like Dwill). He's has the length to block shots. You don't always need off the chart combine measurements to be a good defender in this league...see guys like Bruce Bowen, Joe Dumars, Bryon Russell, Shane Battier, Bobby Hansen LOL,...
 
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