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How are we going to score without Al?

fishonjazz said:
Orangello main point in his post was that he was actually excited to watch the jazz play.... alot of us have felt like watching the jazz play lately has been boring and stale, but last night was different for most of us..... we actually had fun watching them.

Keep on trollin though frank!
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I understood that when it was opened with "The frustrating thing about last nights game". Thanks for interpreting English into whatever language you speak though.

Keep on writing stupid **** that makes you look like an inbred hillbilly fishonjazz!
 
GVC said:
Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 42-39 with Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 99.4-99.0.

Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 5-1 without Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 105.7-98.2.
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What were those 6 games? 2 were Toronto that I know of.
 
GVC said:
Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 42-39 with Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 99.4-99.0.

Over the 11/12 and 12/13 seasons, the Jazz are 5-1 without Al in the lineup. The average score in those games is 105.7-98.2.
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How did the Jazz do when their other dominant players missed games in the past. I could be wrong but I generally remember when Dwill went out for a couple game the Jazz played well to compensate for him being out. Generally teams do their best to step up when they are missing one of their better players but when it becomes lots of game in a row that burst drops off and they do worse. That is a nice stat but still can not be taken at face value for multiple reasons. Ball movement was a little better but Jazz ran the same sets and fed the ball to Kanter who is far less likely to pass out or make an assist than Jefferson.

This boards hate for Jefferson is crazy. He is not a great player but he is a good solid player, if he was in his 2nd or 3rd year playing like this people would love him.
 
DutchJazzer said:
But we still needed a miracle 3 and 3 overtimes to beat them
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Btw, I'm kind of curious as to how you guys are comparing this Raptor game to the one that went to three ot's? Jazz fans as well as anyone should know that we're a completely different team on the road than we are at home. Regardless of who's on the team, we've blown out good teams at home, whiles losing to crappy teams on the road.

Take for instance when we played the hornets.. Anthony Davis didn't play for nearly a whole half of basketball... yet because it was on the road we lost, because our bench and our defense aren't nearly as good on the road.

We're a completely different team at home/road so it's a really marginal argument to make that because Jefferson was out... it was the reason why we blew out the raptors at home. Because just by looking at the Jazz history this season, you see its clear that we play a completely different brand of basketball at home as compared to that game we played against the Raptors on the road.

We beat Denver by 2 at home, whiles we got blown out by 20 by them on the road. So you can't just compare road games to home games, as a way to say that because player A was out in the second game clearly that led to a win against the team this time around.

That kind of logic just ignores the road problems we had all season, and the home magic we've had all season. When you choose not to contextualize things, to make an argument it's a big hint that the logic behind the argument if faulty
 
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Broncster said:
This boards hate for Jefferson is crazy. He is not a great player but he is a good solid player, if he was in his 2nd or 3rd year playing like this people would love him.
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But he's in his 9th year, making $15mm.
 
MoTappin said:
True and a good point. But the Jazz won by 32 points last night. Not 10, 12, or even 20. 32 points. The Jazz SHOULD beat teams like that by 32....that's their potential. Last night, they achieved it. Underachieving their potential has been my #1 complaint about the Jazz over the years. If they'd just play up to their potential, they'd be SO good. Last night they did it. Yes it was one game, but if they play like that consistently, against other teams who are much better than Toronto, they'd still beat them; not by 32, but still come out with a W.

It was the ball movement last night that made the difference. I believe they got good shots and got in rhythm because of how well they moved the ball. They do that better without Al. Everyone else, even Favors and Kanter, are better at working within the system that demands strong ball movement.
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It still means jack to me. If Jefferson's out for a couple more weeks, come talk to me. Our next eight games include six road games and two home games vs. the Spurs and Grizzlies.
 
Broncster said:
How did the Jazz do when their other dominant players missed games in the past. I could be wrong but I generally remember when Dwill went out for a couple game the Jazz played well to compensate for him being out.
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From the start of the 06/07 season to the Deron trade, the Jazz were 167-109 (.605) with Deron in the lineup. The Jazz were 14-12 (.538) in games Deron missed.
 
Purch said:
Btw, I'm kind of curious as to how you guys are comparing this Raptor game to the one that went to three ot's? Jazz fans as well as anyone should know that we're a completely different team on the road than we are at home. Regardless of who's on the team, we've blown out good teams at home, whiles losing to crappy teams on the road.

Take for instance when we played the hornets.. Anthony Davis didn't play for nearly a whole half of basketball... yet because it was on the road we lost, because our bench and our defense aren't nearly as good on the road.

We're a completely different team at home/road so it's a really marginal argument to make that because Jefferson was out... it was the reason why we blew out the raptors at home. Because just by looking at the Jazz history this season, you see its clear that we play a completely different brand of basketball at home as compared to that game we played against the Raptors on the road.

We beat Denver by 2 at home, whiles we got blown out by 20 by them on the road. So you can't just compare road games to home games, as a way to say that because player A was out in the second game clearly that led to a win against the team this time around.

That kind of logic just ignores the road problems we had all season, and the home magic we've had all season. When you choose not to contextualize things, to make an argument it's a big hint that the logic behind the argument if faulty
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btw, I'm not saying that you guys are wrong about Jefferson ( Wanted to trade him and MIllsap both a year ago) but that argument about the two Toronto games is really faulty
 
franklin said:
What were those 6 games? 2 were Toronto that I know of.
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What is your point? When Al does play we usually only beat bad teams also and loose to the better teams.
 
How are are going going to defend without Al? With him gone their bigs will eat us alive in the paint.
 
GVC said:
The numbers look much better without context.

v. Phil 102-99
v. Tor 106-111 (2OT)
v. Por 93-89
v. GS 99-92 (OT)
@ LAL 103-99
v. Tor 131-99
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Thats a pretty good sample as far as quality of teams: some bad ones, some decent ones, and a good one. (though still a small sample.)

Seems like if Al was not on this team then our amount of wins wouldn't go down much (and possible might go up), plus we get to develop our young talent, plus the games are more fun to watch, plus we spend his 15 million elsewhere.... Whats not to like?
 
To be fair:

11/12:

Phil 16-17 road record
Tor 10-23 road record
Por 8-25 road record
GS 11-22 road record
LAL 26-7 home record

12/13:

Tor 1-12 road record

The Lakers win was great. The Philly win was good. 3-1 in the other games (what should be easy home wins).
 
Also its interesting that before Al came to the jazz, they were better than after. (obviously that has to do with having memo, d-will, and AK).

The celtics got better after getting rid of big al. (and picking up garnett, and ray allen)

The t-wolves got better after getting rid of big al. (and drafting kevin love.)

The jazz have a better record since they aquired big al when he doesn't play...... I dont really have a point since there are good reasons/excuses for the discrepencies, but those are the facts.
 
GVC said:
To be fair:

11/12:

Phil 16-17 road record
Tor 10-23 road record
Por 8-25 road record
GS 11-22 road record
LAL 26-7 home record

12/13:

Tor 1-12 road record

The Lakers win was great. The Philly win was good. 3-1 in the other games (what should be easy home wins).
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Very true.... and if al played in those games we very well end up with the same record.... but that is kind of the point.

With or without al we would probably be about the same good, but we would be developing for the future and enjoying watching the games more, all while spending less money in salary.
 
fishonjazz said:
According your post brown, it sounds like the coach isn't using big al properly and isn't coaching the rest of the team to play correctly with him in the lineup
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The Clippers loss was at least as much on Corbin as Dick Bavetta. You cannot allow 3-4 easy baskets, in a row, using the same play, at the end of a tightly contested game. Boo coach.

He's implemented some part time zone though, which has worked wonderfully in small doses to break runs. He's run the offense away from Al early on several times. Most importantly Al has improved under Corbs far more than any other coach. It's hard to get your team to constantly move and set screens when they all know that their best player will probably score anyways even if nobody moves. It happened with Deron under Sloan too.

Of course you could easily make the case that instead of coaching up ol' Al Corbs could maybe focus on other players so make what you want out of that.
 
Brown Notes said:
The Clippers loss was at least as much on Corbin as Dick Bavetta. You cannot allow 3-4 easy baskets, in a row, using the same play, at the end of a tightly contested game. Boo coach.

He's implemented some part time zone though, which has worked wonderfully in small doses to break runs. He's run the offense away from Al early on several times. Most importantly Al has improved under Corbs far more than any other coach. It's hard to get your team to constantly move and set screens when they all know that their best player will probably score anyways even if nobody moves. It happened with Deron under Sloan too.

Of course you could easily make the case that instead of coaching up ol' Al Corbs could maybe focus on other players so make what you want out of that.
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Good post.

I too have noticed some things corbin has done this year that i have liked...... playing some zone D, riding the hot hand more often, he has subbed offense for defense a few times since the new orleans game, he changed the lineups when they didn't seem to be working.

Now if he could just sneak burks into the rotation and somehow get favors up to 30 minutes per game (once he comes back) then i wouldn't have anything to criticize him about.
 
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