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If the Jazz lose Hayward I'm done with the NBA.

White Chocolate said:
Give me a break. No one gave Trump a chance of winning.


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That is not what the facts say.

As a researcher I can tell you that plenty of analysis gave Trump a chance. Again, this notion (misinformation) that Clinton was guaranteed a win is cemented in America's conscience because they heard it ad nauseam from a select few media outlets. But just because you hear something repeated on am radio or a few tv channels doesn't make it true.
 
LoPo said:
The Warriors team played a Utah team without Hill, a San Antonio team without Kawhi and an outmatched Portland team. The Warriors are incredible but there path has been rather easy compared to usual competition in the West.

The Bulls lost some games here and there, but they never faced a true opponent. I love our Jazz and we were the best challenge for the Bulls, but Stockton and Malone were our only advantages. Jordan vs Hornacek? Pippen vs Russell? Even Longley vs Ostertag. Then factor in the bench of Kukoc and Kerr vs Eisley, Vaughn, etc.

The Bulls should and did win every series in those 6 years. The competition was not to their level. Just like the competition this year isn't up to the standard of the Warriors. Although honestly the series should be 2-2 if Korver could hit a wide open 3.
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I remember hearing the same excuses last year too. Such reasons might be true if it weren't for such a large sample size. Over the past 3 years the warriors have dominated like no other team in 40-50 years has. And they're only getting better. Ring chasers will continue to take less money to join them as long as curry, Thompson, and Durant are together.

How many more reg seasons and playoffs must the warriors dominate before people give up the "injuries" excuse?
 
The Thriller said:
That is not what the facts say.

As a researcher I can tell you that plenty of analysis gave Trump a chance. Again, this notion (misinformation) that Clinton was guaranteed a win is cemented in America's conscience because they heard it ad nauseam from a select few media outlets. But just because you hear something repeated on am radio or a few tv channels doesn't make it true.
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Most gave Hillary 90+% chance of winning. Nate Silver was mocked for giving Trump a 30% chance.
 
Siro said:
Most gave Hillary 90+% chance of winning. Nate Silver was mocked for giving Trump a 30% chance.
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90% chance of winning still gives you a 10% chance of losing. I mean, even Hayward missed a few free throws this post-season.
 
Siro said:
Most gave Hillary 90+% chance of winning. Nate Silver was mocked for giving Trump a 30% chance.
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People are shocked when 1 out of 10 90% predictions turn out to favor the underdog.

Steph makes 90%+ of his free throws.

Silver's model was the only one who factored in the possibility for an intrisic bias that could go across states. Others treated states independently, leading to their error.
 
I predicted a couple years ago the NBA would gain more fans
by getting disenfranchised with the NFL cuz there are so many penalties, commercials and injuries.

What the NBA needs to address is the 'Harden style play' where his go to move is to get fouled and shoot free throws. Need to knock that off somehow, I think if the offensive player jumps into the defender they just need to not call it and let them play. The problem is it'll be subjective and cause a lot of whinning. The other thing I dont like is the All NBA BS!! Gives too much power to corruption and political influence imho. If the powers that be dont like hayward on the jazz then theyll rig it so he's not chosen and more likely to shuffle. I know it has the illusion of not being corrupted but anything can be influenced and orchestrated. Anything!

Hell im an honest to goodness good person but I onced rigged an election in high school because I was the vote counter, just marked the wrong column and tossed the vote. Also I once won a contest just because I surprisingly knew one of the judges!!!
 
I predict hayward wont be on the jazz next season.
 
I know a bunch of people at work who are "casual fans". Not a single one likes GSW's dominance. I'm the one who ends up trying to defend it.
 
The Thriller said:
The polls were right. Hillary did win by 2-3 percent of the vote.

This whole attack the polls nonsense is yet another example of how misinformation repeated ad nauseam becomes cemented into the American conscience as fact. Similar to Saddam Hussein being responsible for 9/11 or President Obama being responsible for the bank bailout.

The polls were correct.

Some Prognosticators were wrong in how they interpreted the data. But most were giving Trump a realistic chance of winning. I remember Nate Silver's website (who interpret and use data very well) actually warning people that Trump had a very realistic shot at winning.
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Revisionist history. Most people, including the mainstream media, were absolutely stunned by Trump's victory. If Nate Silver really was saying Trump had a very realistic shot, he was in a very, very small minority.
 
If Hayward leaves I won't ditch this team or the NBA but I will for sure not be as interested or "active" in my Fandom as I would otherwise be, for the short term anyway.
 
@Thriller Nate Silver gave Clinton a 70% chance of winning prior to results coming in on election night. He is your example of someone who gave Trump a very realistic shot of winning? You consistently claim that you know so much more than anyone else about how the world really works, and you are consistently wrong.
 
I was going over this myself last weekend, mentally trying to visualize if Hayward doesn't come back. I honestly had the same thought cross my mind as the OP, it has nothing to do with GSW or a lot of what is being talked about, it just has to do with me and the SPORT of basketball, even if it may have been just an illusion. I could tell myself this is sport sometimes things break your way sometimes they don't but if you go out and compete that is all you can ask. Now for the players that is pretty obvious but also this means same for the FO, drafting to build the team, FA to supplement, growing and development of players all that is on the FO and coaches and their contribution to the team and to the sport.

Now if Hayward leaves <side note while he's a really good player I wouldn't say he is great> it isn't so much with how good he may or may not be or him personally, it would feel (to me) that this is another trend that the NBA isn't about basketball the sport it's about basketball the money. I know that sounds obvious like duh it's been that way and I know it is about money and entertainment but I could tell myself it is a sport that is entertaining and makes everybody a lot of money but again it would just feel wrong to me, it would feel like sport is no longer in that equation and now it just might be purely money and entertainment.

I'm not explaining myself very well, I maybe should've posted this when I first had this thought and it was clearer in my mind last weekend but as the OP said it would kinda get me to start thinking that the NBA might be broken.

But soon after I told myself who am I kidding since I got back to Utah in 2000 between going to games and TV I have not missed a game, not 1, that means from recording on VCR, to TIVO to now DVR to even going to my sisters house (before every game was on TV like they are now days)because she had a "reprogrammed" card that would allow you to watch any channel so she always had the game.
So while the thought did cross my mind I don't believe I would as I'm just way too emotionally invested and committed to the Jazz.

Again I can't stress enough that this is and has NOTHING to do with GSW or even Hayward individually or the Jazz and going through another rebuild. All that would be another novel of post if I posted my feelings on those subjects
 
I think Hayward is an amazing player and he has exceeded my expectations. I liked him when we drafted him yet questioned giving him max money.

If he leaves, I will be disappointed but I'm not going to cry about it for a couple of reasons:

#1 - we arent contenders. Its not like we are OKC going from choking into the West Finals to barely making the playoffs. Hayward is great, but this roster has a whole ton of work to do to actually contend.

#2 - I just have a hard time wrapping my head around giving him $30+ per year. I know that's market value, but good Lord. Memphis had to keep their leader Conley, but that contract will keep them mediocre throughout.

#3 - the guys we really need to develop to provide the support to win anything big are really young. Exum, Lyles and even Hood and Gobert are really a few years from their prime. If we bail on true development with them to win around Hayward now, we might regret it. (this is devil's advocate of course assuming 3 of those 4 might be great).

I would hate to lose the guy, but I'm not going anywhere. Just sucks the draft is before his decision. We might make a massive move up trade with all our assets if we knew he was leaving.

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Joe Bagadonuts said:
@Thriller Nate Silver gave Clinton a 70% chance of winning prior to results coming in on election night. He is your example of someone who gave Trump a very realistic shot of winning? You consistently claim that you know so much more than anyone else about how the world really works, and you are consistently wrong.
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Not for nothing but a roughly 1-3 chance is very much in the realm of "very realistic." I mean, look, polls have never been and will never be perfect predictors of elections. That's not quite their purpose, or at least, shouldn't be.

That said they are useful tools for getting an idea of what public attitudes are about any given subject, and should not be just tossed out as useless.

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I think people are missing the point that national polls are very different beasts and generally much more reliable than state or local polls.

States like Wisconsin have always had issues with polling, and that bore out last year.

Thriller is right in that it wasn't national polls that were off, but certain swing states, whose polling has long been questionable.

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