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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Someone tell @Knox the deal is 6 1sts + 2 pick swaps + Fournier + Toppin + Quickley or Grimes
 
This thread struck me as an accurate breakdown of previous mega trades and the Knicks’ position which would still be a haul but not to my satisfaction.


View: https://twitter.com/schmeelk/status/1548453853275664387?s=21&t=qKeFo-eRlm86Gxxeza2zqg


The summary is that he’s saying a draft-centric package of:
-‘23/‘25/‘27 unprotected Knicks picks
-2 protected picks owed to the Knicks (“5” picks)
-swaps in ‘24 and ‘26
-1 of Toppin/Quickley/Grimes

Is what the Knicks should be comfortable offering because then they’ll still have assets for the next big move.

Here’s my rebuttal:
-I’m not sure the Jazz can even swap in ‘24, but in no universe should that be accepted over ‘28
-this is functionally less than the Jazz got for Gobert which is basically a non-starter in my mind.
-It should specifically be a primary goal of the organization to prevent the Knicks from being able to make another big move as that could damage the value of the later picks and kinda defeats the whole point of the trade: the Jazz need premium compensation.
-The Knicks have too many guards as it is so Quickley or Grimes are natural candidates to go and the Jazz need something resembling a PF to work with.
 
NUMBERICA said:
This thread struck me as an accurate breakdown of previous mega trades and the Knicks’ position which would still be a haul but not to my satisfaction.


View: https://twitter.com/schmeelk/status/1548453853275664387?s=21&t=qKeFo-eRlm86Gxxeza2zqg


The summary is that he’s saying a draft-centric package of:
-‘23/‘25/‘27 unprotected Knicks picks
-2 protected picks owed to the Knicks (“5” picks)
-swaps in ‘24 and ‘26
-1 of Toppin/Quickley/Grimes

Is what the Knicks should be comfortable offering because then they’ll still have assets for the next big move.

Here’s my rebuttal:
-I’m not sure the Jazz can even swap in ‘24, but in no universe should that be accepted over ‘28
-this is functionally less than the Jazz got for Gobert which is basically a non-starter in my mind.
-It should specifically be a primary goal of the organization to prevent the Knicks from being able to make another big move as that could damage the value of the later picks and kinda defeats the whole point of the trade: the Jazz need premium compensation.
-The Knicks have too many guards as it is so Quickley or Grimes are natural candidates to go and the Jazz need something resembling a PF to work with.
Click to expand...


That offer is a 1st and a player short.
 
NUMBERICA said:
This thread struck me as an accurate breakdown of previous mega trades and the Knicks’ position which would still be a haul but not to my satisfaction.


View: https://twitter.com/schmeelk/status/1548453853275664387?s=21&t=qKeFo-eRlm86Gxxeza2zqg


The summary is that he’s saying a draft-centric package of:
-‘23/‘25/‘27 unprotected Knicks picks
-2 protected picks owed to the Knicks (“5” picks)
-swaps in ‘24 and ‘26
-1 of Toppin/Quickley/Grimes

Is what the Knicks should be comfortable offering because then they’ll still have assets for the next big move.

Here’s my rebuttal:
-I’m not sure the Jazz can even swap in ‘24, but in no universe should that be accepted over ‘28
-this is functionally less than the Jazz got for Gobert which is basically a non-starter in my mind.
-It should specifically be a primary goal of the organization to prevent the Knicks from being able to make another big move as that could damage the value of the later picks and kinda defeats the whole point of the trade: the Jazz need premium compensation.
-The Knicks have too many guards as it is so Quickley or Grimes are natural candidates to go and the Jazz need something resembling a PF to work with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, their leverage is that they have the most to give us. The very best they can do is give us a little bit more than we could get elsewhere.

That's like if I go to an expensive store and my leverage is that I have a credit card with a huge limit.

If they want to call that leverage then that's fun for them I guess.
 
I may be late on this because there are literally 40+ pages since I last opened the thread, but I think Windy's podcast had the best breakdown of the trade and why teams are waiting. The Knicks have the best offer (even at their lower price) so they are waiting for the Jazz to come down. OTOH, there is a lot of pressure on the Knicks to get Mitchell. As Bontemps said, there would be "Armageddon" if the Knicks lost Mitchell over a pick or two. McMahon made the argument for the Knicks, and it's logical. No one can beat their offer. But Bontemps explained the human element of this very well. The Knicks have been lining this up for years. If they fail to get it done, the fanbase and talking heads will raise hell.

I'm confident, I think the Knicks cave first. The team with the star players ALWAYS holds the stronger leverage.
 
KqWIN said:
I may be late on this because there are literally 40+ pages since I last opened the thread, but I think Windy's podcast had the best breakdown of the trade and why teams are waiting. The Knicks have the best offer (even at their lower price) so they are waiting for the Jazz to come down. OTOH, there is a lot of pressure on the Knicks to get Mitchell. As Bontemps said, there would be "Armageddon" if the Knicks lost Mitchell over a pick or two. McMahon made the argument for the Knicks, and it's logical. No one can beat their offer. But Bontemps explained the human element of this very well. The Knicks have been lining this up for years. If they fail to get it done, the fanbase and talking heads will raise hell.

I'm confident, I think the Knicks cave first. The team with the star players ALWAYS holds the stronger leverage.
Click to expand...

Yes to all of this. The longer it goes doesn’t mean anything. The Lakers still paid massively for Davis and that took a while. The Nets still paid massively for Harden, etc.

I also thought this was hilarious:

jumpin bean said:
We wanted to trade you to the Knicks Don , but they dont think you are worth more than Rudy, why would you want to play for them. Lets get you somewhere where they value you as the star you are.
Click to expand...
 
KqWIN said:
I may be late on this because there are literally 40+ pages since I last opened the thread, but I think Windy's podcast had the best breakdown of the trade and why teams are waiting. The Knicks have the best offer (even at their lower price) so they are waiting for the Jazz to come down. OTOH, there is a lot of pressure on the Knicks to get Mitchell. As Bontemps said, there would be "Armageddon" if the Knicks lost Mitchell over a pick or two. McMahon made the argument for the Knicks, and it's logical. No one can beat their offer. But Bontemps explained the human element of this very well. The Knicks have been lining this up for years. If they fail to get it done, the fanbase and talking heads will raise hell.

I'm confident, I think the Knicks cave first. The team with the star players ALWAYS holds the stronger leverage.
Click to expand...

The Jazz's leverage stems from the fact that they can just keep Mitchell for a while.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Yes to all of this. The longer it goes doesn’t mean anything. The Lakers still paid massively for Davis and that took a while. The Nets still paid massively for Harden, etc.

I also thought this was hilarious:
Click to expand...
That's why, all along, I was not really nervous about there being interest in Donovan Mitchell. As time goes on, I think the anxiety that the Knicks have of potentially losing Don gets greater. Never doubted that they wouldn't be the best offer, and I have confidence that whatever the negotiation point is right now they will cave to it.

And to be sure.....just like the TWolves had with Rudy, the Knicks have a ton of reason to get it done. Besides the obvious CAA connections, Don is a really good player in his prime. You really shouldn't let a draft pick or two get into the way of getting a player like that. Teams tank for years struggle to get a player like Don or Rudy. Don would be right there with Melo as the best player the Knicks have had since Ewing. They've won one playoff series in the last 20 years.
 
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