Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[mellow]

This is just stunning to me.

Didn't Brunson play for Mavericks?

The Mavericks are owned by Mark Cuban....who has been tampering for 20 years now.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Just realized that the Knicks could give the Jazz a pick swap in 2023, whereby the Jazz apply the pick swap to one of their other FRPs in 2023. For example, the Knicks get the lowest out of the T'wolves, Sixers and their own pick in this next draft. So the Jazz would have their own lottery pick and then could swap the Sixers' pick up (late 1st) to the Knicks pick (lottery/mid-1st).

Then the Knicks can give us FRPs in 24, 26 and 28.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just realized that the Knicks could give the Jazz a pick swap in 2023, whereby the Jazz apply the pick swap to one of their other FRPs in 2023. For example, the Knicks get the lowest out of the T'wolves, Sixers and their own pick in this next draft. So the Jazz would have their own lottery pick and then could swap the Sixers' pick up (late 1st) to the Knicks pick (lottery/mid-1st).

Then the Knicks can give us FRPs in 24, 26 and 28.

So Fred Katz brought up on a podcast the Pre-Davis Lakers.. remember when it was a given that the Lakers were trading for AD and all their young guys disappointed and a black cloud hung over the team… what happens when camp opens and the questions and anxiety increase… Knicks guys gonna be all bought in if they getting shipped out? Thibs gonna help ease their concerns? Not gonna give them the start they are looking for… hurts their record and the pick or swap we get for 23 looks better and better.

 

[infection]

So Fred Katz brought up on a podcast the Pre-Davis Lakers.. remember when it was a given that the Lakers were trading for AD and all their young guys disappointed and a black cloud hung over the team… what happens when camp opens and the questions and anxiety increase… Knicks guys gonna be all bought in if they getting shipped out? Thibs gonna help ease their concerns? Not gonna give them the start they are looking for… hurts their record and the pick or swap we get for 23 looks better and better.

Maybe, but the Lakers traded 7 guys in that deal, and at least three of them (Hart, Ball, Ingram) were contributors. We’re not disrupting enough of their rotation.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe, but the Lakers traded 7 guys in that deal, and at least three of them (Hart, Ball, Ingram) were contributors. We’re not disrupting enough of their rotation.

Fournier, Quickley, Toppin, Rose, Grimes, Reddish... could all be dudes in the deal. They also may wait until next offseason to extend RJ... IDK... they gave up a lot of depth in the salary dump deals. The margin for error in the east will be small.. I think their floor is a play in team... but with a slow start it could get rough fast.

 

[whatthe]

Just realized that the Knicks could give the Jazz a pick swap in 2023, whereby the Jazz apply the pick swap to one of their other FRPs in 2023. For example, the Knicks get the lowest out of the T'wolves, Sixers and their own pick in this next draft. So the Jazz would have their own lottery pick and then could swap the Sixers' pick up (late 1st) to the Knicks pick (lottery/mid-1st).

Then the Knicks can give us FRPs in 24, 26 and 28.

That would be a genius level move.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Im relieved there are less fake rumors now. I think we will have a month of mostly dead time and the rumors will pick back up in September when teams get closer to training camp.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Just realized that the Knicks could give the Jazz a pick swap in 2023, whereby the Jazz apply the pick swap to one of their other FRPs in 2023. For example, the Knicks get the lowest out of the T'wolves, Sixers and their own pick in this next draft. So the Jazz would have their own lottery pick and then could swap the Sixers' pick up (late 1st) to the Knicks pick (lottery/mid-1st).

Then the Knicks can give us FRPs in 24, 26 and 28.

I don't think that's how swaps work, but I could be wrong. Maybe you can write a trade like that.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So Fred Katz brought up on a podcast the Pre-Davis Lakers.. remember when it was a given that the Lakers were trading for AD and all their young guys disappointed and a black cloud hung over the team… what happens when camp opens and the questions and anxiety increase… Knicks guys gonna be all bought in if they getting shipped out? Thibs gonna help ease their concerns? Not gonna give them the start they are looking for… hurts their record and the pick or swap we get for 23 looks better and better.

All depends on how they start the season. If they are winning and it's all fell good with the young guys playing really well they might even shelf getting Mitchell until next year.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Im relieved there are less fake rumors now. I think we will have a month of mostly dead time and the rumors will pick back up in September when teams get closer to training camp.

I was pretty anxious for a little while there, and just wanted a deal to get done. Every big rumor that speculated a deal was imminent meant that I was checking for updates way too frequently.

I'm much more relaxed now. I definitely want something to get done before training camp (do we have a date for this yet?), but I'm also glad there isn't a lot to get excited about for awhile.

 

[Jazzman12]

Fournier, Quickley, Toppin, Rose, Grimes, Reddish... could all be dudes in the deal. They also may wait until next offseason to extend RJ... IDK... they gave up a lot of depth in the salary dump deals. The margin for error in the east will be small.. I think their floor is a play in team... but with a slow start it could get rough fast.

But is their floor really a play-in team?

I know the West is deeper, but if it was currently the Jazz trying to make a playoff run with a core of Donovan/Brunson/Barrett, I would be nervous as hell about even making it to the play-in.

And if that really is NY’s floor after adding Mitchell, then they’ll need to worry about keeping all 3 healthy and in the lineup for 70+ games if they plan on avoiding the lottery (IMO). A deal with the Jazz is gonna put a serious dent in NY’s depth, and while I think Donovan will prove to be an apt recruiter for the Knicks going forward, they’re not gonna be able to fill those holes between whenever a deal gets done and the start of the season.

If Donovan to NY ever actually happens, I think getting NY’s ‘23 pick unprotected could prove to be the most valuable of the bunch.

 

[TheStormofWar]

About six weeks until we hear about how Ainge "almost traded" Mitchell.

 

[LogGrad98]

Can't believe how little we've heard from @MeloTheJazzKiller on all this. You'd think he'd be in the thick of it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But is their floor really a play-in team?

I know the West is deeper, but if it was currently the Jazz trying to make a playoff run with a core of Donovan/Brunson/Barrett, I would be nervous as hell about even making it to the play-in.

And if that really is NY’s floor after adding Mitchell, then they’ll need to worry about keeping all 3 healthy and in the lineup for 70+ games if they plan on avoiding the lottery (IMO). A deal with the Jazz is gonna put a serious dent in NY’s depth, and while I think Donovan will prove to be an apt recruiter for the Knicks going forward, they’re not gonna be able to fill those holes between whenever a deal gets done and the start of the season.

If Donovan to NY ever actually happens, I think getting NY’s ‘23 pick unprotected could prove to be the most valuable of the bunch.

I should have said with relatively decent health their floor is play in... and it could be last team out of the play in... but I think they are better than the Magic, Pacers, Pistons, Hornets (no Bridges... Hayward can't be real happy there... Borrego is actually a good coach). So the Wiz or Knicks hit the play in... or if some team has an inordinate amount of injuries they drop.

i agree.... been saying get the 2023 pick... at very least get a swap with the Minny or Philly picks for it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can't believe how little we've heard from @MeloTheJazzKiller on all this. You'd think he'd be in the thick of it.

He's devastated they lost the Summer League title.

 

[MeloTheJazzKiller]

Can't believe how little we've heard from @MeloTheJazzKiller on all this. You'd think he'd be in the thick of it.

When your team was 100% guaranteed to get LeBron, Durant, Zion, Lillard, and others, you learn not to run out and buy a Knicks jersey of that guy.

 

[TheStormofWar]

I appreciate this on an aesthetic level.

View: https://twitter.com/spacelymedia/status/1554474080606322688?s=20&t=ipzWupJlR-QzMbYodJzMLA

 

[Coach Ellis]

I don't think that's how swaps work, but I could be wrong. Maybe you can write a trade like that.

I think you have to own the picks that you’re including in the swap. I don’t believe you can make the trade so ambiguous that you can include picks that either team doesn’t already own. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a swap with picks not yet already owned by either team.

If that’s the case, then timing becomes very important. If you want to include a Knicks or Lakers future pick, I think the Jazz have to already own then in order to do that.

But, once they make some of the trades that they’re expected to here before training camp, they could definitely leverage some of those additional assets into pick swaps elsewhere instead of getting more 1sts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think you have to own the picks that you’re including in the swap. I don’t believe you can make the trade so ambiguous that you can include picks that either team doesn’t already own. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a swap with picks not yet already owned by either team.

If that’s the case, then timing becomes very important. If you want to include a Knicks or Lakers future pick, I think the Jazz have to already own then in order to do that.

But, once they make some of the trades that they’re expected to here before training camp, they could definitely leverage some of those additional assets into pick swaps elsewhere instead of getting more 1sts.

You can definitely do it with picks you own. I don't know on the unknown... we haven't seen it before but that doesn't mean it isn't legal. I would think as long as the Stepien rule is satisfied that you can do it but not sure if it is specifically outlawed.

 

[Coach Ellis]

You can definitely do it with picks you own. I don't know on the unknown... we haven't seen it before but that doesn't mean it isn't legal. I would think as long as the Stepien rule is satisfied that you can do it but not sure if it is specifically outlawed.

That was the part I was commenting on.

Ideally, the Jazz will have their own pick, plus the T-Wolves, Knicks, 76ers and Mavericks picks in 23’,

their own pick, plus the T-Wolves, Knicks and (maybe) Bucks picks in 25,

their own pick plus the T-Wolves, Knicks and Lakers picks in 27

and their own pick, plus the T-Wolves, and Knicks picks in 29.

Assuming you have to send out 2 or 3 of Bogdanovic, Conley, Clarkson, Beasley, Beverley to get the Lakers pick in a Westbrook buyout, that leaves you the other guys plus maybe Vando and potential salary dumps to add some other swaps.

Especially if you can include multiple picks in a “super swap” type scenario (like the Pelicans in 27’) you could potentially upgrade those picks significantly, while also allowing yourself the freedoms to rebuild as quickly as possible. You’d be banking on at least one of the swap teams to do worse than you or one of the teams that you own picks for. That seems like a pretty good bet to take.