Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[idiot]

Interesting. I was super captivated by the story as it was unfolding in the news, so I'll probably check it out. Although, for some reason, I'm kind of over it.

There's so much more that the documentary covers. If twitter is a guide, quite a lot of viewers who thought they knew the story found it jaw dropping.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is kind of the thing I don't fully buy when everyone talks about how much we fleeced Minnesota and how we're trying to fleece the Knicks.

• SGA was part of the return for Paul George
• Ingram and Ball were part of the AD trade
• Deron Williams netted us two consecutive years' #3 draft picks (Favors & Kanter)
• Gallinari was part of the Carmelo trade
• even the Jrue Holiday trade brought back the productive/tradable Stephen Adams

There are no real studs in the Wolves deal and most of the proposed Knicks deals coming back to us (with all due respect to Grimes and Vanderbilt). Just a bunch of pieces that, as of now, have a likely outcome as useful role player or minor trade chip.

So without this highly regarded player, the "haul" isn't really as great as it's made out to be. It shouldn't be so surprising that we get more picks instead.

Yup, which is why we hopefully use the assets we got in the T'Wolves trade sooner rather than later. They will only devalue year to year when it's clear the Wolves are very very good.

 

[Elizah Huge]

This is kind of the thing I don't fully buy when everyone talks about how much we fleeced Minnesota and how we're trying to fleece the Knicks.

• SGA was part of the return for Paul George
• Ingram and Ball were part of the AD trade
• Deron Williams netted us two consecutive years' #3 draft picks (Favors & Kanter)
• Gallinari was part of the Carmelo trade
• even the Jrue Holiday trade brought back the productive/tradable Stephen Adams

There are no real studs in the Wolves deal and most of the proposed Knicks deals coming back to us (with all due respect to Grimes and Vanderbilt). Just a bunch of pieces that, as of now, have a likely outcome as useful role player or minor trade chip.

So without this highly regarded player, the "haul" isn't really as great as it's made out to be. It shouldn't be so surprising that we get more picks instead.

We got 3 unprotected 1sts, a top-5 protected 1st and their #22 pick in this years draft. That’s essentially 5 unprotected 1sts plus a pick swap plus a ton of players who could net us even more picks. It quite literally might end up being one of the biggest hauls in NBA history.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We got 3 unprotected 1sts, a top-5 protected 1st and their #22 pick in this years draft. That’s essentially 5 unprotected 1sts plus a pick swap plus a ton of players who could net us even more picks. It quite literally might end up being one of the biggest hauls in NBA history.

We got Walker Kessler, a guy we would all have been relatively upset about drafting in the 1st round.

 

[idiot]

We got 3 unprotected 1sts, a top-5 protected 1st and their #22 pick in this years draft. That’s essentially 5 unprotected 1sts plus a pick swap plus a ton of players who could net us even more picks. It quite literally might end up being one of the biggest hauls in NBA history.

I think you're reading too much into the "unprotected" part of it. A pick likely in the 20s that is unprotected is still likely a pick in the 20s. Could we get lucky? Sure. Should we count on getting lucky? No.

I'll be honest. I'll be shocked (at least in the short term, without unforseen development) if any of the players we acquired gets us anything better than pick #20 (though perhaps packaged together you might do slightly better; but even there, I have my doubts). I think most of them (individually) will not fetch more than a 2nd rounder.

So maybe we'll replenish our stock of 2nd rounders, maybe even get a few additional ones. That, in addition to the several picks in the 20s that are likely coming, isn't nothing, but I'd rather have SGA or Brandon Ingram (or even Lonzo, I think).

This is not to say I don't think the Minny trade was bad on its own terms. I think we did well. But I think all the media noise about how great a deal it was is overblown. We're going to need some luck in order for it to turn into a steal for us.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think you're reading too much into the "unprotected" part of it. A pick likely in the 20s that is unprotected is still likely a pick in the 20s. Could we get lucky? Sure. Should we count on getting lucky? No.

I'll be honest. I'll be shocked (at least in the short term, without unforseen development) if any of the players we acquired gets us anything better than pick #20 (though perhaps packaged together you might do slightly better; but even there, I have my doubts). I think most of them (individually) will not fetch more than a 2nd rounder.

So maybe we'll replenish our stock of 2nd rounders, maybe even get a few additional ones. That, in addition to the several picks in the 20s that are likely coming, isn't nothing, but I'd rather have SGA or Brandon Ingram (or even Lonzo, I think).

This is not to say I don't think the Minny trade was bad on its own terms. I think we did well. But I think all the media noise about how great a deal it was is overblown. We're going to need some luck in order for it to turn into a steal for us.

We also didn’t trade Paul George or Anthony Davis.

I’m also not reading too much into the unprotected part of the picks. Do you have any clue what Minnesota’s roster will look like in 26/27/29? That’s literally 4/5/7 years from now. That’s why they are so valuable because nobody knows.

All I know is I damn sure will bet on them being closer to the lottery than not when they are in the bottom-3 of winning percentage since 2000.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We also didn’t trade Paul George or Anthony Davis.

I’m also not reading too much into the unprotected part of the picks. Do you have any clue what Minnesota’s roster will look like in 26/27/29? That’s literally 4/5/7 years from now. That’s why they are so valuable because nobody knows.

All I know is I damn sure will bet on them being closer to the lottery than not when they are in the bottom-3 of winning percentage since 2000.

The Clips and Lakers just gave away the #8 and #12 picks... those were supposed to be picks in the 20s... and those aren't even the far out ones they gave in those trades. It doesn't always work out but we shouldn't discount things just based on how they look now. The unprotected picks get a value premium for a reason.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The Clips and Lakers just gave away the #8 and #12 picks... those were supposed to be picks in the 20s... and those aren't even the far out ones they gave in those trades. It doesn't always work out but we shouldn't discount things just based on how they look now. The unprotected picks get a value premium for a reason.

EXACTLY

Also, I’ve said this before but again the value we added to our own picks should be included in the entire totality of the deal. We don’t trade Rudy and our 2024 1st likely conveys to OKC. We also wouldn’t have been able to deal a 1st until 2028 due to protections. The list just goes on and on it’s much more deeper than what people are saying.

 

[Elizah Huge]

It can get really ugly really quick for Minnesota.

Say their 2025 1st ends up being late lottery and we get it. They have no way to improve other than dealing players on their team. Then guess who owns their 2026 1st due to a pick swap option? Then guess who owns their 2027 1st? The list goes on and on. When you deal that many picks that far out you literally can’t do ****.

All three of their best players are all on different timelines. They will have damn near the entire cap allocated to three players.

For what exactly? A couple playoff appearances maybe? A second round exit?

 

[gomretat]

Pay attention to at your own peril:

I dont think the Jazz say to to RJ and 4 first round picks so there is some things not being told here.

We got 3 unprotected 1sts, a top-5 protected 1st and their #22 pick in this years draft. That’s essentially 5 unprotected 1sts plus a pick swap plus a ton of players who could net us even more picks. It quite literally might end up being one of the biggest hauls in NBA history.

It might end up being a great haul and might end getting us nothing close to as good of a player as Rudy. Hope it works out and wish we would trade for real talent.

 

[gomretat]

This is kind of the thing I don't fully buy when everyone talks about how much we fleeced Minnesota and how we're trying to fleece the Knicks.

• SGA was part of the return for Paul George
• Ingram and Ball were part of the AD trade
• Deron Williams netted us two consecutive years' #3 draft picks (Favors & Kanter)
• Gallinari was part of the Carmelo trade
• even the Jrue Holiday trade brought back the productive/tradable Stephen Adams

There are no real studs in the Wolves deal and most of the proposed Knicks deals coming back to us (with all due respect to Grimes and Vanderbilt). Just a bunch of pieces that, as of now, have a likely outcome as useful role player or minor trade chip.

So without this highly regarded player, the "haul" isn't really as great as it's made out to be. It shouldn't be so surprising that we get more picks instead.

Amen.

 

[idiot]

EXACTLY

Also, I’ve said this before but again the value we added to our own picks should be included in the entire totality of the deal. We don’t trade Rudy and our 2024 1st likely conveys to OKC. We also wouldn’t have been able to deal a 1st until 2028 due to protections. The list just goes on and on it’s much more deeper than what people are saying.

I'm with you here. That's a real benefit of the deal. But I don't count it as part of the "haul." Minnesota didn't give us this. When people go back and judge this trade in later years, it's not something you can use to say that the Wolves got fleeced. It's not something that you could add or take away from the deal like a player or 2nd round pick, or something; it's just a fortunate side effect (based on a presumed tank).