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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

I'm guessing the Knicks biggest concern is how they can get off Randle's contract if they pay to high of a price for Mitchell.

Because if they can get off Randle for an expiring contract, they can free up money. If they have cap-space and Mitchell, they don't need to trade for a star, they can likely sign one.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Which is why I said they’re not that far apart when their lowball offer is only 1 unprotected pick away from being a offer we can agree on.
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I think the Knicks/Rose are pretty headstrong about not bowing to Ainge's demands. I think they are going to take a risk on this one and wait it out.

I think that lowball offer might be the offer. Maybe they add in Grimes, but I doubt they add in more unprotected picks.
 
If I was a Knicks fan I would want the team's 1st priority to be get off of Randle's contract tbh, not trade for Mitchell.

Then I'd want a year of the young guys. IF they lose games w/e. Get a high draft pick in a loaded class.

Then revisit the Mitchell talks prior to the 23 draft.

To me the urgency to trade for Mitchell for the Knicks is solely a media created one. They can afford to wait a year. And the Jazz can too probably.

That's why I dont think a deal gets done.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think the Knicks/Rose are pretty headstrong about not bowing to Ainge's demands. I think they are going to take a risk on this one and wait it out.

I think that lowball offer might be the offer. Maybe they add in Grimes, but I doubt they add in more unprotected picks.
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The Knicks are playing with fire if they really really want Mitchell... This reported offer is very close and IMO it's beat by some of the offers other teams can offer. Here are some examples:

Do you like Herro more than Toppin for example? Do you like the Heat 27 and 29 picks more than 3-4 of Knick's random heavily protected picks?

Do you like Charlottes young players more than NYKs? Do you value CHA's 27 and 29 picks higher than 3 or 4 of NYK's trash 1sts?

Do you like Deni Avdija, Corey Kispert, Johnny Davis + a few 1sts and swaps more than NYK's offer?

Do you like Suggs and 3 unprotected +1 protected better than Toppin and 2 unprotected + 3 protected?

Some of those I probably would like better than NYK's current offer and I can see why the Jazz would prefer those too.
 
stitches said:
The Knicks are playing with fire if they really really want Mitchell... This reported offer is very close and IMO it's beat by some of the offers other teams can offer. Here are some examples:

Do you like Herro more than Toppin for example? Do you like the Heat 27 and 29 picks more than 3-4 of Knick's random heavily protected picks?

Do you like Charlottes young players more than NYKs? Do you value CHA's 27 and 29 picks higher than 3 or 4 of NYK's trash 1sts?

Do you like Deni Avdija, Corey Kispert, Johnny Davis + a few 1sts and swaps more than NYK's offer?

Do you like Suggs and 3 unprotected +1 protected better than Toppin and 2 unprotected + 3 protected?

Some of those I probably would like better than NYK's current offer and I can see why the Jazz would prefer those too.
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Those are all those team's maximum offers, which we have no idea if anyone is even offering their max offer for Mitchell.

Given how ****** the NYK offer just was, I'm guessing they arent as of yet.

What's the lacking ingredient for all these teams?

None of them have that much reason for urgency. Maybe the Wizards, but that's about the only one.

Plus they all have to contend with the fact that Mitchell is heavily linked to NYK, so they have to be willing to give their best offer for Mitchell and have a 3 year plan to convince him to stay despite being asset depleted after the Mitchell trade.

Things can change on the fly, which is the risk. But it's not like Utah isnt going to check in and call NYK before they make a deal if they are getting these offers. NYK will have a chance to match.
 
This is the way that I am looking at this

1st - Fournier is an ok player but not on a very good contract. I am pretty sure that he is the one that we will take. We might be able to flip him for a couple of seconds to a competitor that needs bench scoring. His contract is awful. That in itself is worth compensation. I get that they like Rose and he is a good fit and on an expiring contract.

2nd - They have Barrett, Toppin, Grimes, Quickley, and Reddish as young players that need to be added. I understand that the Jazz are not going to get all of those. I would be pushing for Quickley to be traded as the PG is one of their deepest positions. For me, it is either quickley or Grimes. I understand that thibs loves Grimes but he is the better of the 2 in my opinion so if you keep one there needs to be compensation. I could see that they want to pair Barrett with Mitchell so that means compensation. Toppins seems to be the given and Reddish is never mentioned. He is a decent defender off the bench for them at a valuable position. Toppin seems to be a given so Toppin and Quickley have to be added in and they need to give compensation for not going after Grimes and Barrett.

3rd - I hear that the Knicks don't like the pairing of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, and Randle. they are all ball-dominant, primarily Randle. That is not the Jazz concern. He is on an awful contract and they are going to have a hard time moving him. this is going probably need compensation for them to move Randle. Again not the Jazz problem that they gave such an awful contract.

4th - Correct me if I am wrong but the rumors seem to be that the NBA is going to do away with the one-and-done rule. Since CBA expires in 2024 I am guessing that it would affect the 2025 draft class. If this is true that the 2025 class with have the last class of one and done and the high school seniors that would be a class that will have a lot of value and I would value unprotected picks in that class.

all this said I would say picks in 23/25/27 unprotected and 2 of their other picks and 4 seconds with Fournier, Toppin, and Quickley.
 
stitches said:
The Knicks are playing with fire if they really really want Mitchell... This reported offer is very close and IMO it's beat by some of the offers other teams can offer. Here are some examples:

Do you like Herro more than Toppin for example? Do you like the Heat 27 and 29 picks more than 3-4 of Knick's random heavily protected picks?

Do you like Charlottes young players more than NYKs? Do you value CHA's 27 and 29 picks higher than 3 or 4 of NYK's trash 1sts?

Do you like Deni Avdija, Corey Kispert, Johnny Davis + a few 1sts and swaps more than NYK's offer?

Do you like Suggs and 3 unprotected +1 protected better than Toppin and 2 unprotected + 3 protected?

Some of those I probably would like better than NYK's current offer and I can see why the Jazz would prefer those too.
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I’ve long been a fan of the Heat offer depending on how much Herro wants in extension. They can give 23/27/29… either with some language around the pick they owe to OKC or by changing protections. They’d give up swaps too… plus Jovic, Yurtseven, maybe Strus to use in another deal.

Raps could come with a strong offer too.

Washington and Charlotte offers can improve based on how the puck swaps go… because they have some future obligations you might be able to ring out some protection language and swaps that are more than we might think.

If we start the season some of these teams start well and decide to push some chips into the middle (Orlando specifically)…

I think it would be a pretty big risk losing the star that wants to be there, is young, and is very likely to stay long term. Risk that over 1 extra unprotected pick (if they came with the current offer and it’s 6 first and 3 unprotected are we holding our noses?). They also burn up a season to get a better 2023 pick to use in the deal.

Don’t get me wrong… waiting a year is really risky for us too… it’s just different because every “risk” has some good unintended consequences. Don gets hurt and we suck… we get a high pick and still can decide to keep him or
Move him… he plays really well and we are a 7/8 seed… we effed up our pick… but Dons value would be higher and we showed we could be solid and would have picks and space to build around him.
 
homeytennis said:
Why give the Knicks a chance to match? If the Jazz get a better deal eff the Knicks. Let them read about it on the interwebs.
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You go back to them but it’s not a match at that point… it’s beat this by 15% before we hang up the phone and you get fired.
 
Chargers Jazz Angels said:
This is the way that I am looking at this

1st - Fournier is an ok player but not on a very good contract. I am pretty sure that he is the one that we will take. We might be able to flip him for a couple of seconds to a competitor that needs bench scoring. His contract is awful. That in itself is worth compensation. I get that they like Rose and he is a good fit and on an expiring contract.

2nd - They have Barrett, Toppin, Grimes, Quickley, and Reddish as young players that need to be added. I understand that the Jazz are not going to get all of those. I would be pushing for Quickley to be traded as the PG is one of their deepest positions. For me, it is either quickley or Grimes. I understand that thibs loves Grimes but he is the better of the 2 in my opinion so if you keep one there needs to be compensation. I could see that they want to pair Barrett with Mitchell so that means compensation. Toppins seems to be the given and Reddish is never mentioned. He is a decent defender off the bench for them at a valuable position. Toppin seems to be a given so Toppin and Quickley have to be added in and they need to give compensation for not going after Grimes and Barrett.

3rd - I hear that the Knicks don't like the pairing of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, and Randle. they are all ball-dominant, primarily Randle. That is not the Jazz concern. He is on an awful contract and they are going to have a hard time moving him. this is going probably need compensation for them to move Randle. Again not the Jazz problem that they gave such an awful contract.

4th - Correct me if I am wrong but the rumors seem to be that the NBA is going to do away with the one-and-done rule. Since CBA expires in 2024 I am guessing that it would affect the 2025 draft class. If this is true that the 2025 class with have the last class of one and done and the high school seniors that would be a class that will have a lot of value and I would value unprotected picks in that class.

all this said I would say picks in 23/25/27 unprotected and 2 of their other picks and 4 seconds with Fournier, Toppin, and Quickley.
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I honestly think that’s where the Knicks would like to settle… but aren’t putting the deal out there yet. They have 2-3 weeks to work it out. I think the Jazz are also asking more than that right now… so still some work to do.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Those are all those team's maximum offers, which we have no idea if anyone is even offering their max offer for Mitchell.

Given how ****** the NYK offer just was, I'm guessing they arent as of yet.

What's the lacking ingredient for all these teams?

None of them have that much reason for urgency. Maybe the Wizards, but that's about the only one.

Plus they all have to contend with the fact that Mitchell is heavily linked to NYK, so they have to be willing to give their best offer for Mitchell and have a 3 year plan to convince him to stay despite being asset depleted after the Mitchell trade.

Things can change on the fly, which is the risk. But it's not like Utah isnt going to check in and call NYK before they make a deal if they are getting these offers. NYK will have a chance to match.
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There are reports the Jazz like some of the other offers they've received from other teams. Now, this very likely is just a way to push the Knicks into offering more, but who knows - maybe it's both - they like some of them and they are still trying to squeeze the Knicks? We wouldn't have considered MIN being desperate, but we don't know the internal forces with those teams and what conversations are happening. MIA for example IMO is on the verge and don't have much time remaining with Butler at super high level. Maybe they are desperate to give the absolute best. Other teams have been **** for so long. WAS IMO has to be real desperate after giving Beal that contract. They must be trying to compete now, rather than later with Beal on the verge of entering his 30s. We also never know the surprising team that will appear out of nowhere and offer tons...
 
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