Jazz front runner for Conley

[framer]

I take Harris or Dlo 100 out of 100 times. I know I'm not alone in that either... I get it though because you cant make a free agent sign with your team so you have to look at your other options. I just think even without free agency there are better more rewarding risks than getting Conley.

Except you aren't choosing between Harris, Conley, or Dlo. You are choosing between Conley and a CHANCE of Harris or DLo. One is a sure damn thing, With the others, we need to sacrifice first, THEN see what we get. Like a freaking scratcher ticket. If you have the opportunity to guarantee yourself a third titan, you do it, especially if the other options aren't guaranteed. Also, right now, Conley is the better player of the three.

 

[infection]

Not when a shooting PG is with them.

This is just looking for an excuse to keep him. If you're living paycheck to paycheck but continue to spend $300 at the club on the weekend, getting a raise or a bonus would be cool and may mitigate your frivolous spending on the weekends, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't rein it in.

 

[Zombie]

Imo the Conley trade would improve this team enough to make us WCF contenders and maybe more if things break the right way. We'd have an argument for having the best backcourt in the NBA outside of Dame/CJ, and maybe the best front court outside of LA.

Maybe we could get DLO and maybe he becomes as good as Conley in a few years, but I'll take the sure thing if it's available.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I would love to believe that this deal can wait until July and the Jazz can see if they can sign someone. Conley is not my first option of anything remotely feasible, but it is without-a-doubt a massive improvement to the team.

If you can include Exum in the deal and stretch Korver, you have about $15 million in cap space which is probably enough for Niko or maybe even Randle. That is not bad.

$15 million and the room exception is way better than the MLE. It’s also way better than paying a lane-clogging dinosaur eight figures and being god damn stuck.

 

[LoPo]

The front office isn't dumb, they're doing a ton of homework right now and have been the whole offseason. If they truly believed they could land Kemba, Tobias or Russell then I'm sure that would be their preference and they wouldn't make the Conley deal. The fact that they are trying so hard to get Conley tells me that their intel is saying all those guy's are likely to sign elsewhere. As for Randle, it doesn't seem like the front office really has any interest in him...Tony Jones even said on twitter that the Jazz would much rather keep Favors than sign Randle.

I'm not saying the front office is dumb, but a year ago, they made a massive mistake that most of you agreed with. They decided to go with continuity, kept it all together, overpaid two players (Exum AND Favors) and ran it back. In hindsight, it was very dumb and failed. Even with Rubio 100% healthy, our season ended a round earlier with the same fate (4-1 loss to Houston). We were one of a very, very few teams who had space. Instead of going after Bjelica, Randle, Ilyasova and other guys who got bargain *** deals, we spent a combined $35 million on Favors, Exum, Thabo and Udoh.

This summer seems like last summer, but we just feel like Conley is the difference whereas last year we thought healthy Rubio was going to be the difference. If all we do to this team is replace Rubio and Exum with Conley and continue to pay Favors $17+, we are making a massive mistake. If we try and fail in free agency, at least we tried. And who knows, Conley might still be sitting there. He should be a back up option not the priority.

 

[Ron Mexico]

With all lineups. Gobert with Favors is still positive, but not nearly as positive as Gobert and a “4” that can shoot.

In comparison to other that is not true. When they play with a shooting PG they have been better than Gobert with other PFs. That is also including the data from the previous two years when Favors played most of those seasons hurt. This years data is very limited since they didnt get much of a chance to play.

Favors and Gobert this year playing with Neto or Mitchell at PG put up fantastic numbers better than the same with Sef or Crowder in the same lineups. Same is true last year with Faves and Gobert playing with Neto. The year before it was about the same with Hill. Faves and Gobert played really well with Exum that year oddly and Mack.

But if you want to go off those types of numbers as well then we were a better team with Favors instead of Gobert in the starting lineup. Of our top 10 most used lineups last year our 3 best lineups were Favors at center.

 

[NUMBERICA]

In comparison to other that is not true. When they play with a shooting PG they have been better than Gobert with other PFs. That is also including the data from the previous two years when Favors played most of those seasons hurt. This years data is very limited since they didnt get much of a chance to play.

Favors and Gobert this year playing with Neto or Mitchell at PG put up fantastic numbers better than the same with Sef or Crowder in the same lineups. Same is true last year with Faves and Gobert playing with Neto. The year before it was about the same with Hill. Faves and Gobert played really well with Exum that year oddly and Mack.

But if you want to go off those types of numbers as well then we were a better team with Favors instead of Gobert in the starting lineup. Of our top 10 most used lineups last year our 3 best lineups were Favors at center.

Against. Scrubs.

This team will go nowhere if it doesn’t have the courage to make moves away from a roundly-disproven basketball philosophy.

 

[Zombie]

I'm not saying the front office is dumb, but a year ago, they made a massive mistake that most of you agreed with. They decided to go with continuity, kept it all together, overpaid two players (Exum AND Favors) and ran it back. In hindsight, it was very dumb and failed. Even with Rubio 100% healthy, our season ended a round earlier with the same fate (4-1 loss to Houston). We were one of a very, very few teams who had space. Instead of going after Bjelica, Randle, Ilyasova and other guys who got bargain *** deals, we spent a combined $35 million on Favors, Exum, Thabo and Udoh.

This summer seems like last summer, but we just feel like Conley is the difference whereas last year we thought healthy Rubio was going to be the difference. If all we do to this team is replace Rubio and Exum with Conley and continue to pay Favors $17+, we are making a massive mistake. If we try and fail in free agency, at least we tried. And who knows, Conley might still be sitting there. He should be a back up option not the priority.

I don't see any reason for Memphis to wait around for us if we strike out in FA. Conley is a good enough player that you can be sure there are other suitors than us.

I also have to push back a bit that we made a huge mistake last season, especially if some of those players we signed end up getting traded for Conley this summer. I don't think any of those other names you mentioned would have tipped the scales enough to improve the result of last season.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Any sane person would prefer a 23 (?) year-old Russell to a 31 year-old Conley. But I suspect it would take a lot more finagling/assets to swoop D-Lo and I also have serious concerns about him re-signing long-term (unless he and Donovan really are tight).

On the other hand, I think swooping Conley for two years while still holding onto Favors would be fire.

There's a rumor that Russell is going to end up in Phoenix. Indiana is also after him. If the Jazz can bag Conley without giving up too much, it's a reasonable thing to do.

 

[Ron Mexico]

This is just looking for an excuse to keep him. If you're living paycheck to paycheck but continue to spend $300 at the club on the weekend, getting a raise or a bonus would be cool and may mitigate your frivolous spending on the weekends, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't rein it in.

It is simply a fact. They play well together when they have 3 others that can shoot on the court and always have. They dont play well with Rubio at PG. If we add a shooting PG they can play more together and still have Favors play as backup C. Favors was easily our best player in the playoffs this year and was easily our 3rd best player for the whole season. Dumping him for nothing is silly. If we can pickup a player that is really good, then go for it. But dont dump him just to pick up a stretch 4. We dont need that. Crowder is doing just fine as our PF and Favors can play more and we can be really good with him there assuming our PG can stretch the floor.

 

[Avery]

One thing I'll say in Conley's defense for why he's never made an All-Star roster is the same thing I would say for Donovan - the competition is fierce and it's not an indictment on him as a player.

Conley has had to compete against the following players in bigger markets with more name recognition making AS in front of him as a traditional 'PG':

Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Jason Kidd
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Damian Lillard
Stephen Curry

 

[framer]

Good news is that if we see something like this happen this week, it's also a tell that we weren't really in the running for any premier free agents at all.

Conley makes us a better team. A team that can somehow escape from the west and win a title? Not so much especially if you see Leonard go back to the Clips and the Lakers potentially taking on a third max.

Lakers aren't getting a third max. Since Davis did not decline his trade kicker, the most they would have to spend is 24 million. Not nothing, but nowhere near a max either.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Against. Scrubs.

This team will go nowhere if it doesn’t have the courage to make moves away from a roundly-disproven basketball philosophy.

A fad of stretch 4s is not a roundly disproven basketball philosophy. Its an easy excuse to say the stats lie because it was against scrubs. That is not true at all.

Last year in the playoffs Gobert and Favors together was our most used lineup producing +23. Crowder coming in was -11.6. Was that against scrubs? Favors with Crowder was our next best used lineup in the playoffs last year. Plus Favors was hobbled.

This year Favors was our best player in the playoffs.

I think you and others just want to find some magical solution and have decided that a stretch 4 is our problem. Our problem is piss poor play at PG since Dwill left. Having 2 elite pick and roll bigs in the game with PGs that cant run a decent pick and roll and cant shoot when left open kills them.

Its easy to counter Gobert. You can pull a big out of the paint no problem. You cant pull 2 of them out. That makes our defense elite. Favors can space the floor on offense with his mid range shot and his ability to run the pick and roll very well. He also cleans up on offensive rebounds.

Again he is a really good player and dumping him for the sake of chasing some stretch 4 who is worse makes the team worse.

If letting him go nets us a better 4, great. If letting him go nets us a really good PG like Russell, great. If we can keep him and land a great PG, even better.

 

[David Stern]

I think Dallas should trade for Conley tbh

 

[LoPo]

I'm done arguing this. If it happens, it happens. If it happens, I hope we don't give up 2 1st round picks and Exum.

Oh well, we will see.

 

[Zombie]

If letting him go nets us a better 4, great. If letting him go nets us a really good PG like Russell, great. If we can keep him and land a great PG, even better.

This is exactly where I'm at. If we can get Conley and keep Faves its a no brainer.

 

[framer]

It is simply a fact. They play well together when they have 3 others that can shoot on the court and always have. They dont play well with Rubio at PG. If we add a shooting PG they can play more together and still have Favors play as backup C. Favors was easily our best player in the playoffs this year and was easily our 3rd best player for the whole season. Dumping him for nothing is silly. If we can pickup a player that is really good, then go for it. But dont dump him just to pick up a stretch 4. We dont need that. Crowder is doing just fine as our PF and Favors can play more and we can be really good with him there assuming our PG can stretch the floor.

I believe Locke said that Donovan playing point with Favors and Gobert was about 8% in overall offensive efficiency, which is horrid. However that combo was the best in the league defensively at 99% for an overall positive. Add Conley, move Spida to the 2 and use either Joe or Royce, and that is an even better defensive lineup. with a lot of the offensive liability taken away.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't see any reason for Memphis to wait around for us if we strike out in FA. Conley is a good enough player that you can be sure there are other suitors than us.

I also have to push back a bit that we made a huge mistake last season, especially if some of those players we signed end up getting traded for Conley this summer. I don't think any of those other names you mentioned would have tipped the scales enough to improve the result of last season.

Faking out Bjelica so that the Jazz could commit $30 million to a total ****ing lemon made a massive difference, as did re-upping Favors (which is forgivable considering the particulars of the contract).

 

[Roy_McAvoy]

Once again, here's why I don't like the Conley deal.

In two years the Jazz will likely have Gobert on a supermax ($50mm/year) and Mitchell on a max deal ($30mm/year. That's $80 million between those 2 guys. That leaves limited cap space for the rest of the roster. If Conley is coming off the books the Jazz will basically not be able to sign any outside impact players. If the Jazz struck out on top FA's this year but alternatively signed some younger plan B type guys (Think Bobby Portis, Jabari, Terry Rozier, etc) Then those guys would be under contract for longer and then the Jazz would have their bird's rights to resign them in the future even though they're over the cap.

Basically with the Conley deal I think the Jazz will be screwed in two years.

 

[infection]

A fad of stretch 4s is not a roundly disproven basketball philosophy. Its an easy excuse to say the stats lie because it was against scrubs. That is not true at all.

Last year in the playoffs Gobert and Favors together was our most used lineup producing +23. Crowder coming in was -11.6. Was that against scrubs? Favors with Crowder was our next best used lineup in the playoffs last year. Plus Favors was hobbled.

This year Favors was our best player in the playoffs.

I think you and others just want to find some magical solution and have decided that a stretch 4 is our problem. Our problem is piss poor play at PG since Dwill left. Having 2 elite pick and roll bigs in the game with PGs that cant run a decent pick and roll and cant shoot when left open kills them.

Its easy to counter Gobert. You can pull a big out of the paint no problem. You cant pull 2 of them out. That makes our defense elite. Favors can space the floor on offense with his mid range shot and his ability to run the pick and roll very well. He also cleans up on offensive rebounds.

Again he is a really good player and dumping him for the sake of chasing some stretch 4 who is worse makes the team worse.

If letting him go nets us a better 4, great. If letting him go nets us a really good PG like Russell, great. If we can keep him and land a great PG, even better.

I think there are plenty of attainable guys who, with or without Conley, will improve our team in place of Favors. To name a few: Jabari, Niko, Aminu, Gay, maybe even Jamychal Green.